Update: March 27, 2011:
Sefina and Michael Lucki
Congrats to this couple! Thanks, Felicia for this link!
"Mrs. Lucki, 26, teaches Spanish and computer skills at the Village Community School, a private day school in New York. She graduated from Wellesley and received a master’s in education from Wake Forest University. . . .
Mr. Lucki, also 26, is a senior auditor at Time Warner in New York. A certified public accountant, he graduated from Wake Forest University, from which he also received a master’s in accountancy" . . . .
They most probably met in college (Wake Forest Univ). She's another black woman who received her B.S., M.S. and her MRS. as a result of going for higher education. As I've stressed, any black woman can do all these simultaneously IF she understands that this IS an important goal for her from the outset--that is IF she wants to get married. I certainly did this. I met my husband while in college and got married the first time 8 months after I graduated with my B.S.--to a man who had his MBA in accounting and computer systems analysis. After we got married, he went on to get his doctorate from Columbia and I went on to get my M.S.
Why would any sensib le woman fritter her youth or time away on men who have dissimilar VALUES, who are NOT marriage minded AND/OR with men who do not meet the criteria of being 'equally yoked' when she could use that same time and youth to mingle only with men who are??????? This is the ultimate COMMON SENSE question for marriage-oriented women of ANY age.
It's known by all that TIME is an irreplaceable commodity for women and men. Many men and women who claim to be long-term relationship/marriage oriented spend goo-gobs of time in their lives with people of the opposite gender who are not marriage-oriented and/or with people who don't meet the 'equally yoked' criteria or with those who have very different, clashing VALUES. As a result, these relationship virtually always crash and burn, usually leaving the woman or man wounded and sometimes hemorhaghing for the rest of their lives.
These relationships were doomed from the start. This is why VETTING men is so important!!
Anyway, as my grandmother used to always say: "A rolling stone gathers no moss." This is true for women and men. It's definitely a KEY reason why many AA men and women end up poor, often unhealthy, and drained of their resources when they get older. They've frittered away their time and resources rolling around from person to person, investing their time and resources unwisely and therefore not keeping any 'moss.' Remember the old Temptations' song:
"Papa was a rolling stone; wherever he laid his hat was his home; and when he died all he left us was ALONE."
Marriage to a compatible QLL man ASAP is the ultimate BEST investment for ANY woman and especially for any woman who wants to get married. It's due to the way the world is set up, and unless a bw can set up her own self-contained world, she had better try to make the current world work for her. I will never budge from my position on that.
The world is NOT going to change what works for the bulk of people in the world--for ANY individual or ANY one group of people.
As research has shown repeatedly, marriage is also the best investment for men, but my site's target audience is women. Black WOMEN--on the interracial or intercultural slice of life or path--are really all I can manage to focus on here. LOL! The intercultural/interracial relationship/marriage life is the one I've lived for decades, so I'm sharing what I've learned from my experiences, observations, studies, and readings about that.
Black women: I am NOT confused at all about how a (western) black woman should configure or position herself for a QLL man. I've never been confused about that, so I hit the ground running. I didn't waste time. I KNOW my way (philosophy/thought system and method) works. I KNOW how to successfully do the mating dance. Of course, it's not the only way, but EVERY successful mating dance will contain most of the elements I've talked about. So the "Evia Way" (hmmm, nice ring to that--lol) of adding marriage as a key component for a black woman's Living Well life is ONE sure-fire, soundproof way. It's so soundproof until it could be patented. Until I may or can do that, I'll settle for copyrighting it here. LOL!
For all of those readers who ask or try to apply subtle pressure for me to write about other combinations of couples, or for ex. the woman who wrote me recently wanting me to help her to mesh her Christian beliefs with her desire to date wm who may not have the same beliefs, that's out of my realm. Readers of that sort need to take those questions elsewhere! I CANNOT address EVERY single aspect of every type of relationship here!! So, I'm not ignoring you; I simply can't cover it all.
THEREFORE from now on: I will ONLY cover Black Women Interracial and Intercultural which after all is and has been my principal domain and the main title of ALL of my books in the series for years. BTW, Book 4 containing 10 -15 more of my (non-visible on this site) 700 essays and numerous provocative, enlightening comments from readers will be out in a couple of months. Yeah, I know it's overdue. That's why I've got to get back to my domain, my track. My books and the various comments serve to capture the major emotional and social currents in the lives of western Black women at this point in time, so they are valuable historical documents.
Sooooooo--this means that if any of you want to discuss 'black love,' stories about misfits, DBRs and/or other horrors, that's not what I do. Got the tee-shirt and saw the movie. Those situations are NOT going to change, so there's no point in beating a dead horse. The END of that.
Wow! I'm excited about going forth to talk about what I started out at the beginning writing about: my life and the everyday lives of black women like me who are the love interest of men in interracial and/or intercultural couples.
But before you go, PLEASE read the BBW WARNING below that I just stuck in this morning!!!
Update: March 25, 2011: [READERS: Please note that I'm republishing this article because a reader wrote me a couple of times asking to see it. Remember that I've published about 700 articles by now and most of them are similar to the one below. ONLY a small portion of my articles are available to be read online. Most of them are no longer visible. I WILL return to my normal "updates" shortly. ]
WARNING (added on March 27, 2011): I talked with a woman yesterday who describes herself as a BBW (Big Beautiful Woman) and belongs to various BBW clubs. She told me about a couple of incidents where men she met online had tried to swindle her out of money. Black women, SOME men (of all groups) who claim to love BIG women may be pursuing you because they believe that BIG women are desperate enough for male attention to give these men $$$$$$$$$ or whatever else these men crave.
__________________________
Since I've stirred up the BW's weight sacred cow, pls scroll to the bottom to read the opening defense shot from BM, a black woman enabler of obese bw. sigh]
Another ARTICLE re Obesity. Thanks CSG for both links! This article presents research findings that whereas an obese woman may have a harder time finding a romantic partner, the obese man can more easily find a partner for sex, but has a higher chance of not being able to have sex due to erectile dysfunction.
___________________________________________________
Sheena and Gabriel
Felicia! You've found a whole smorgasbord of BWIR couples! I'm just posting a few of the ones you sent.
All of these women are AA women--a part of that 9% and growing BWIR stat. And the best part about BW in IRs is that these relationships tend to be very stable and have longevity greater than average relationships of many same race couples, according to the research and stats.
So Felicia, thanks so much for your dedication to finding the evidence that AA women are desired and chosen for MARRIAGE and chosen to be the mothers of their children by a variety of men in the global village--of all ages and non-AA backgrounds.
My site provides a tiny representation showing the PROOF of that assertion which is what I started out saying in my very first blog.
______________________
ENTRY begins
Darren and I go on several short getaways, one moderate distance trip, and one long trip out of the country every year. This is a part of our lifestyle. We only spend minimal money on clothes, cars, electronics, or showy type things. Those types of items don't give us any satisfaction or the pleasure that they seem to give others. Darren spends most of his money on horticultural items and books. I spend most of my money these days on craft supplies and craft classes. I'll go a long distance to attend a craft show or class, and sometimes we combine those trips with other activities.
When my oldest son first started school, I made his uniforms: navy blazer and gray slacks. I didn't see why I should buy those expensive uniforms when I could buy a pattern and fabric and save a bundle of money by sewing them for him. We preferred to spend the money on his private school tuition instead.
Raina and Wasa (BELOW)
I would never EVER buy my sons those ridiculously-priced sneakers either. I'd feel stupid wasting money like that. As a couple, we avoid debt and have very little of it. We are sensibly frugal; we have everything we need and are comfortable in the knowledge that we can get what we want. But what you want is determined by your VALUES. This is why I stress to women that when they're vetting men, they need to probe for his values. That is SO important! If there is a values mismatch and she tries to have a meaningful relationship with him, I can guarantee her that there will be LOTS of friction!
Karen and Allen -
Age: 47
Occupations: IT professional and Nursing
"We met in 2003 and were married in 2005. Allen had been in one prior marriage (also biracial) and Karen had never been married. We've been perfect for each other; we are like best friends, only better! We've never had an argument. Everything just clicks into place for us."
Darren never buys a new car. I prefer high quality used cars too. I haven't bought any new clothes in years. We share cable and internet service with a relative. I cut his hair. I do my own hair and I've never had my nails done. He polishes my toenails and considers that to be an artistic, romantic gesture. I hate shopping for myself; Darren doesn't like to shop either, so I usually buy his clothes and shoes for gifts and such. I was shocked the other day to see that he'd bought a pair of hiking shoes! I've never known him to buy shoes because I usually get them for him. I buy him beautiful shirts and he loves to wear them. He has so many shirts now!
Gwen and Clint
He gets me jewelry, scented creams, lotions, and slinky lingerie. I have a lot of all of these now, but since I'm here on the farm a lot these days, I don't wear most of the jewelry out here. I certainly wouldn't want one of my necklaces to get caught on the electrified fence we use to contain the animals. He told me it doesn't matter to him whether I wear the jewelry; he just likes giving it to me. Whereas, it does bother me if he doesn't wear the things I get for him! So we enjoy giving each other these tokens of our love and appreciation for each other.
As a couple, we tend to spend the bulk of our money on experiences. We're always doing things or searching to find experiences to engage in, things to do that we find interesting.
For ex, Darren wants us to go rowing in the river near our house, so he told me he will buy a row boat. I'm not actually excited about this particular experience because there are all sorts of annoying opportunistic, BITING, insects buzzing around by the river, but I'll rub down with repellent and I'll be ready.
This week, he is in Utah on his yearly retreat and while he's there, he's doing a lot of hiking. He called me yesterday to tell me that all of the trails and various sightseeing venues are loaded with German, French, and Japanese tourists. Since he goes there every year, I call this his solo vacation and I warned him to stay out of those Vegas brothels since the plane lands in Vegas and departs from there. LOL!
He'll be there for a week and when he comes back, we'll start packing for the main vacation. Now, I'm really excited about THIS trip.
Suffice it to say that Darren and I have very similar VALUES. That's what makes us click.
Anyway, I guess we went GREEN before green became "Green." LOL! We've done recycling for years and years. We have a compost pile to dispose of food garbage, which fertilizes the soil on our organic farm. Jars and plastic containers are used over and over for a variety of purposes. Darren does all of the repairs around the house and has the skills to actually build a house, so doing moderate construction, painting, electrical, and plumbing work in our house is a no-brainer for him. We grew up in different parts of the country on farms; I grew up Down South and he grew up UP North. Self-sufficiency was drilled into both of us, and when you grow up that way, you just figure you can do a lot of things for yourself. It's the way the people we came from did things--in a common sense way.
I brought that same attitude to finding a quality mate or anything else of quality that I seek. Apparently, Darren. did too. He said his parents always told him and his brothers and sisters to find "good" people to marry. My family always told me to stay away from "NO Good" men, the type that I now call the NV and LV man. So, alike Darren, I knew I was supposed to find a GOOD mate, and to never even think about mingling with or marrying an NV or LV man.
Kerri and Ken
So after 500 trillion words, I'm back where I started with this common sense message. BW: just find yourself ONE loving, lovable, suitable, and compatible QUALITY man in the global village. Find the best one you can find for yourself. And stop fooling yourself. You DO know who these men are and who they are NOT. I'm convinced that MOST of you already know that. Many of you are simply STALLING, acting like you're confused--due to FEAR.
If you've made a pattern of choosing NON-Quality men or don't date at all now or haven't dated for years, you need to dig deep and confront yourself to find out why.
If you need to get some help--like therapy, GET IT! If you need to get some cosmetic surgery, GET IT! Lots of women of all groups are getting the help they need of ALL types. Remember that the cosmetic surgery industry was not created for bw and it's NOT bw who are pumping the billions into it that keeps it healthy and thriving. If you need to get different hair, different teeth, different manners, etc. or different whatever, GET IT! Stop waiting for ANYONE to give you permission!! Just get what you need and do it with style and grace. Behave with DECORUM at all times, and you WILL be rewarded.
And remember that according to a stat that was on the news yesterday, 1 out of 5 relationships among ALL groups in the U.S. in 2010 began ONLINE. Sign up with one or more of the online dating services TODAY. There's a portal into the largest Interracial match site always sitting in my sidebar. The men are there waiting for YOU. If you need help to polish up your profile, I have associates that will help you, but you will have to pay for it. If you can do that for yourself or if know of someone who will do it for your for free, GET IT DONE and get started dating.
Sharena and Miguel
For all of you who ask me whether you should WAIT--NO! NO! NO! You can do more than one thing at the same time and you can do them WELL. Most women are fantastic at multi-tasking. I believe you're STALLING. You don't need to write me and ask me any type of 'waiting' questions. Just look at the way other regular, normal women from well-functioning groups are conducting their lives. Choose those who you admire and let them be a guide.
If you're in this category of bw and you want to get married to a Quality man, the likelihood of your attaining your goal will depend on several key factors. One of them is the process and outcome of that confrontation with yourself. A part of this is that you will be REQUIRED to stop looking and listening to poisonous others!!
You need a complete set of NEW activities so that you will not have time or the interest to listen to and look at poisonous others. FIND those activities and turn them into HABITS. And actually, if anything, those poisonous others would motivate me to pursue my bliss because I would think to myself how dreadful it would be to end up like them or even worse to be trapped around them! Lawdy! However, I am immune to their poison because I've never allowed myself to be exposed to it for more than a minute and could easily reject it since I had positive others around me who gave me a very different message about my worth and desirability.
Note from Male Reader & NYT Article about Black Women's Weight
"Evia,
I realize that talking about obesity produces defensive howls among black women, but, really, it's getting to the point
where it is a matter of life or death for black women in the aggregate. And, according to this article, now it is
increasingly a matter of life or death for children in the womb.
What is the level of obesity now among adult black women? I don't know, but isn't it above 70%? And, then of course, there
is morbid obesity, which is also extremely high among black women.
The very worst part of all of this is not the women who are currently obese, because, frankly, most of them are a lost
cause at this point; but rather, the young girls being raised in the black community that now believe that being 50 lbs.
overweight is a normal weight.
"Fat" is considered a normal weight.
And, obese is euphemistically referred to as "big", or "BBW", or "thick".
We are NOT doing these girls any favors by minimizing the dangers of obesity by using this sort of language when referring to a woman that is 5'5" and 200 lbs. She is not thick or big, she is morbidly obese, that is, dangerously obese.
We should be warning young girls against obesity like we warn them against drugs and alcohol, because the physical problems become just as great, but instead, black girls and black women just keep getting bigger and bigger. It is quite frustrating to watch a group of people eat themselves into a collective grave.
I'm not suggesting you do a piece on it, because it will make you even more of a pariah in the black community then you are now - I guess I'm just venting a little bit. It makes me angry to see these beautiful young women pile on the pounds and put their well-being in jeopardy.
My girlfriend (BW) is not pencil-thin by any means, but she is a long ways from obese - she works out, keeps it firm, she's happy with her body weight and so am I. Both of us try to keep our weight down and our health up, and, of course, it isn't easy - lots of temptations available every day. I was around 80 lbs. overweight at one point in my life, so I know how hard it is to get off of that merry-go-round of calories once you're fat.
But, at least there weren't millions of people enabling those bad habits by telling me that I was just "big". I was FAT, and I knew it. I can't imagine the psychological and social inertia a young black woman has to overcome in order to slim down, since it seems to be more and more acceptable to be obese in black circles. It does not portend well for the future, that's for sure.
Sorry for the rant..."
ARTICLE: Growing Obesity Increases Perils of Childbearing
THANKS for your note and for your concern.
Whew! I think that practically everything that can be said about bw's weight has already been said. I've been told so many times that I don't understand or I've been vilified for mentioning it.
Also, please realize that it's ONLY among certain segments of AAs that FAT = THICK = "FOINE." Remember that AAs are not monolithic. The AAs who I talk with DEFINITELY do NOT think this way, unless they are lying. However, bw's weight is another sacred cow among some segments of AAs.
I've reached the point where I think that ONLY overweight or obese people should talk to others about their obesity and weight issues because overweight/obese people do not listen to people like me and will absolutely go ballistic unless you coddle them and accept all of their excuses. When I have carefully broached the subject with overweight friends and relatives offline, I stand there like an idiot while they reel off the excuses like "It's this medicine I'm taking," or "It's my metabolism," or "It's my thyroid," and yadda, yadda. I dare not tell them they're insulting my intelligence, so I pretend to believe them. However, it seems that overweight people don't talk to each other much about weight either. Imagine that. The folks who best understand a situation don't talk about it.
And you're right, there is NOTHING that enrages a typical bw the way that talking about her weight enrages her. So, I'm just going to raise my hand here and admit that there is something about this that I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I don't understand it emotionally OR intellectually, and on the intellectual front, it's just a fact that they're committing suicide. However, now the pharmaceuticals and the medical establishment have managed to get overeating declared a disease so that they can make billions of dollars. So we know that this is going to continue and continue.
________________________________________________________________
[I'll post my responses here regarding the bw's weight issue/arguments since my blogs contain a recording of major forces, trends, and events in the lives of black American women at the beginning of this millennium that contribute greatly to our uplift and demise. First, please read the comments section to this post to read the quotes in context from "E" (in dark orange below) regarding bw's weight. Then read this response. I will print other commentary regarding this issue inside the essay here since bw's weight is one of the major culprits in the quality of AA women's lives. For the sake of brevity, I'll refer to enablers of obese bw as EOBWs. My response is in blue. BM's comment is also in the comment section. You can respond to her there if you'd like.
Response from BM, a bw EOBW (enabler of over-eating bw):
. . . . In regards to the poster who made the following comments --
"Fried chicken at Easter"
That's racist and annoying. I'm black and never ate fried chicken at Easter. Please let's not beat white people at their own RACIST game. Hearing that comment makes me feel like I'm back in college, at an all-white fraternity, listening to drunk idiots wax philosophical in the cultural realm. Please. Not all black women are fat because they eat fried chicken. There are various, tangible socio-economic reasons that cause blacks (MALE OR FEMALE) to be heavier, on average than whites.
[This is the bogus RACISM defense. I'm not even going to elaborate on this one. SMH]
WOW. Okay, although I'm definitely not a advocate for obesity, I will say that the mindset demonstrated in this particular posting (and postings like it) is downright misguided. How are you going to put up pictures of black women who are (let's be honest) obese, and also put up comments of this nature? The bigger women photographed in beautiful wedding gowns -- smiling and SECURE -- SHOW that was "E" has merely TOLD to be exactly antithetical to the truth. [This is the STRAWMAN defense whereby the 2nd person redirects or misdirects the discussion to argue a separate point that s/he wants to argue in order to weaken, refute, or ridicule the argument of the 1st person. I have NEVER said that if a bw is overweight or obese that she absolutely cannot find a loving and lovable Quality man, and commenter E never said that either. So, as an EOBW, you have presented a strawman. I have said many times that "there are NO absolutes in life; instead there are only PROBABILITIES." Some things that we do increase the probability that we will reach a certain goal or will increase the chances that a thing will happen to us or for us, and other things we do decrease the probability. The increase or decrease of the probability is a CHOICE that we (as adults) each have, a matter of free will. I have also pointed out many times that "Exceptions do NOT disprove rules. ] As a black woman who grew up in white communities all of her life, I can say hands down that black women have better attitudes about their bodies (fried chicken or sans fried chicken) than the general white female population. White communities have women that are thinner, sure, but they also have women who kill themselves from dieting, eating disorders and the malaise borne from low self-esteem. Let's strive to be healthy, obviously, but let's not strive to have the mindset that associates thinness with happiness, or the ability to secure men. [LOL!!!!!! I'm going to call this the "F%t Black Women Are Happier People" defense. The STRAWMAN is also here. Why introduce ww at all into this argument, except to misdirect it to one that you think you can win? This defense has SO many holes in it. SMH I'll mention a couple. First, notice how you have totally dismissed socio-political perks of "white"ness and argue that obese bw are actually much better off than thin ww with eating disorders because bw supposedly have 'better attitudes' about their obesity. LOL!! I'm trying hard here to see how that supposedly 'better attitude' benefits that bw. This is really important because this is one of the main MYTHS that contributes a LOT to bw blowing up on food and other things they consume. Being f%t and happy does not prevent diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attacks, cancers, etc. that are directly linked to overweight and obesity. Having this 'better attitude' also doesn't prevent these issues during childbirth that the article above references. Okay, SOME ww and SOME bw both have unhealthy eating habits. In a fair world, they may be equal, but fairness has nothing to do with the lives we live in this world. So, that's the health angle. Let's go to the mating/ romance angle now. Who would have the greatest options with men: Kim Kardashian (who could easily have an eating disorder. After all, Princess Di was rumored to have one) or would most men prefer Mo'Nique who was fat and supposedly proud? I'll bet that you don't have much good to say about the overwhelming number of higher level black men who will chase down overweight and obese ww and those with other eating disorders or low self esteem for love, marriage, and the white picket fence. The point here is that ww having eating disorders and low self esteem does NOT significantly diminish their ability to marry UP, if they choose--due to socio-political factors that bw do NOT have going for them. Bw, therefore need to control what we CAN control and accentuate our best characteristics. Black women have beautiful bodies. In that contest, we would win HANDS DOWN. Even our worst haters cannot ignore our beautiful bodies, among our other physical features like youthful skin and the firmness of our bodies for decades longer than other women. For ANY female in the patriarchal world, those are MAJOR assets. Having low self esteem and disorders of any type may actually enhance a typical ww's ability to marry up among black, Hispanic, and Asian men because it puts her within their range or their striking distance. The fact is that MANY non-white men CANNOT get or have a much harder time getting a slim ww who has good self esteem. In addition, I could point out MANY, MANY destructive behaviors in a typical bc or black social circle that blacks have a 'better attitude' about, but those things are DESTROYING them. This is a VERY weak defense. Also, if we take the ww out of this discussion, if you are arguing that a TYPICAL overweight black American woman with this supposedly 'better attitude' has good self esteem, I would NOT agree in general. I'm not even going to spend time here shattering that whole delusion. There are many INDIVIDUAL AA women of ALL weights, however, who DO have good self esteem. "To this woman (E), the one who has maintained more men approached her when she became thinner -- has she ever considered that it was the confidence she gained by losing a couple pounds that made her more attractive? And that with the right therapist, life-coach, or MIRROR, she could have had this confidence without necessarily losing the weight? Or is she already so far down the eating disorder path that she thinks her self-worth and her weight have an indirect relationship? That is, her self-worth increases when her weight decreases." BM, you are contradicting yourself here. Anyway, this is just more enabling bw to feel good about being overweight and/or obese. Being a few pounds overweight is one thing, but being very overweight or morbidly obese KILLS many of these bw! It significantly robs them of many opportunties of all types that many slimmer women have, for no reason other than that they are slimmer. Anyway, for those who wonder why black people don't discuss the bw's weight issue more, this is why many AAs just leave this sacred cow alone! It's insane to constantly argue the obvious. And this had nothing to do with eating fried chicken. I believe E used that as an EXAMPLE of the many unhealthy foods that too many black women consume in excess. I eat fried chicken maybe 3 times a year now, but I love fried chicken. I ate it at all holiday dinners when I was growing up because EVERYBODY down south ate fried chicken--EVERYBODY, including white people all of the time. Many white people STILL eat tons of fried chicken. It wasn't mainly black people who made it possible for KFC to make millions/billions of dollars with the KFC chain. Maybe we need to start posting pictures of white people caught in the act of eating fried chicken at KFC and other places and set up sites showing the pictures of them chowing down on chicken drumsticks, and other foods that supposedly only black people eat, like watermelon, etc. and refer white racists to those sites. "So that is my rant. I am generally a lurker. But cannot resist from responding to HOT MESS." I can totally sympathize with you as a black college student listening to those stereotyped attacks on you and on the black image, however those attacks are the result of black people on a world wide basis not working with all of their might to POSITION themselves to move on up, to be respected in the world. So, if anything I'd be angry at black people, at black leaders for misleading black people. This is why I can no longer tolerate whining and excuses from black people about this or that. TIME IS UP. The bulk of black people are simply whiners. Guess what? Anytime you or I or anyone else puts ourselves in the position, most people who can WILL be spraying us down with their HOT MESS because when the HOT MESS falls, it's going to land right on us. WHY? Because we're in the path of the sh$t. Animal behavior 101: Bigger, more powerful animals sh$t on smaller, weaker animals who are in the path of the sh$t. Period. Full Stop. In the case of human beings, all human beings have been given the wherewithal to organize into groups so that they can prevent themselves from being sh$tted on. Black people have decided (and it IS a choice) not to do that. So this is why I'm URGING as many individual bw as possible to get out of the path of that HOT MESS because it's going to continue to rain down on them. And there is a GREAT or astronomically high probability that during our lifetime, excess weight is and will continue to be a LIABILITY against a typical bw if she's trying to MOVE ON UP.
"Being thinner has given me way more options with men point blank"
You posted alot of photos in this feed!! I love looking at all the beautiful couples!! Boy oh boy!
Posted by: S.Greene | June 11, 2010 at 10:46 AM
I LOVE looking at IR wedding pics. Bw in these pics are always glowing, looking so happy and in love. We don't see that enough I'm afraid. And I'm always very happy when I look in the couple's pics before they got married, and there is the future husband standing next to his woman as she's wearing a cap and gown! I hope many bw see this as a sign that not all men will put you down for your education goals and that its ok to be smart and ambitious.
Posted by: Anilia | June 11, 2010 at 11:50 AM
I totally agree with you about the weight thing, Evia. It is a sacred cow among black women and I think there is a lot of shame there mixed up with hair and color and rejection, but I still don't get it. My mom was a working class woman and she was one of the few black women in her aerobics classes at the Y in he late 80s. The black women she knew, friends and family, laughed and laughed when she bought her own juicer to make carrot juice.
I know it's partially class, because at my college in CT I saw way fewer BBWs then in the city where I live now. I know many slim, toned upwardly mobile black women who have been teased to varying degrees for saying no to the fried chicken at Easter or eating tofu or whatever, so I know these issues are interconnected with region, culture, etc., too.
I have a lovely aunt, my father's sister. In other ways she is a supportive aunt but since I turned 22or so, every time I see her she asks me if I have gained weight as if she is hoping I am getting fat. I have never called her on it but other people have notice it, too. If I had "gained a few lbs" every time I saw her, I'd be clear over 300lbs by now. Her daughter, now 15, just lost a bunch of weight recently and is now a normal weight for her age and height. My aunt is pre-diabetic and now she is taking yoga and aerobics and planning healthy meals with my cousin.
A black woman of any age who is in shape is a sight to behold for many men, but a BBW is usually mocked way more than a large white woman Large white women are invisible, but BBWs are demonized and scapegoated. No one can deny that. Men are visual creatures, and a straight black women interesting in men is sharply reducing her options.
All of my boyfriends have LOVED my body and my shape and told me so. I am not as skinny as my college days, but I am still toned. Being thinner has given me way more options with men point blank and once less ism to worry about. I may not be at the peak of health but I can run a mile and my bp is good. We must take care of ourselves. A BBW has fewer options. It's that simple. It may no be fair but life is not fair.
Last comment. This bbw/obsity is new and it is learned behavior, and it has nothing to do with our genetics for most of us. That is a lie and an excuse that no one believes but us. I look at pictures of my grandma and her aunts and they were all thing as young ladies, not rail thin, but no BBWs to be found in my old family pictures from NC and SC. Thus BBW mess is another trap, just like 'strong black woman'. A BBW is a sitting duck socially and health-wise. A BBW can't run away from foolishness and she is limited to the mostly DBR men who say they like BBW. Guess who? Have you ever heard these fools who call obese women "healthy"? Orwellian doublespeak anyone?
Posted by: E | June 11, 2010 at 12:05 PM
Thank you Evia for your continued support and information. As a Gen Y person, I still find your information insightful. Change begins now andn the present. In the past 2 years I some how managed to pack on 20-30 pounds, which was/is not alrigh for me. Though I expressed discern I was coddled even though I didn't want to be. Luckily I have been privileged to have an education in and out of the classroom that has helped me continue to stay healthy and change my eating habits.
Posted by: kaikou | June 11, 2010 at 01:08 PM
Well being diabetic it is hard to maintain a certain weight when your medication does cause you to gain or to retain water. I have had to try different meds because as soon as one controls my sugar it makes me gain water weight so it is frustrating to try to explain to others about why you are gaining weight. I have gotten into arguments with my doctor about a certain diabetic medicine causing me to gain 30 pounds in 18 months and I had not gained that much weight in the 10 years I had been diabetic. The nurse had my dosage decreased and I have not gained anymore weight in the past 6 months apparently she had several patients who had been complaining about weight gain and water retainage from this medicine. At the time of all this weight gain I was bellydancing and walking a mile a day and the weight kept coming.
Posted by: Bellydancer | June 11, 2010 at 01:18 PM
Evia these pictures are so beautiful and good reminder to black woman that yes you can be married!!!! no matter if you're light or dark skinned, permed hair or natural/ no hair at all. All of these pictures put a huge stomp on all the lies given to black women that white men wouldn't be caught dead with. Yet these pictures say otherwise. Plus allows you to practice seeing yourself in the gown and married to you're one and only. You'd be surprised how many black women stopped dreaming about that.
I also what to add, if you don't mind evia, that black women should definetly go where their stock is higher. It only makes sense. Avoid all black everything and go to cultural festivals such as Greek/Italian festivals. If you're a young lady like myself and likes to go clubbing just for fun (not to find a husband) go to a mixed club.
I have a friend of mine who recently met an Italian man from Italy who just moved to the states and explained to her that men there love bw, but there are not ENOUGH of them, and they literally fight tooth and nail to date and marry one. So where do you think I'm going??? you got it. That doesn't mean we should all back our bags and head over to Europe; that is a prime example of going where you're stock is higher.
So quit listening to the lies, keep your eyes on the prize, do what you have to do to look good, read books on how to behave in social settings, learn how to flirt, get a hobby (outside of your home and church), and literally watch your life change.
Posted by: Sky | June 11, 2010 at 03:19 PM
To Evia:
Great post as usual.
Keep talking about some of our weight issues. It is about time we face that particular demon.
Posted by: Ann | June 11, 2010 at 05:58 PM
Evia said...
So Felicia, thanks so much for your dedication to finding the evidence that AA women are desired and chosen for MARRIAGE and chosen to be the mothers of their children by a variety of men in the global village--of all ages and non-AA backgrounds.
I thank YOU Evia for posting these beautiful pics. Sky nailed it.
..."these pictures are so beautiful and good reminder to black woman that yes you can be married!!!! no matter if you're light or dark skinned, permed hair or natural/ no hair at all. All of these pictures put a huge stomp on all the lies given to black women...
That has been my point all along and the reason why I never tire of researching any and all positive pics, videos, slideshows and written information pertaining to the beauty and desirability of US.
To be honest, I'm even blown away by some of the material I've been coming across.
And the best part is, that majority of these couples I've been finding of late have been married within the last 4 years.
There is a definite observable shift taking place in the hearts and minds of a growing number of BW of ALL ages, sizes, complexions, hair-textures, you name it. It is WONDERFUL (and important) that it's being documented and distributed the way it is.
These pics, videos, articles, etc... and obviously the commentary at this and other BWE sites are meant to INSPIRE and dispel myths that are meant to keep BW tightly in their boxes so they can be controllable and useable.
Ladies in the listening and viewing audience, the ONLY one holding you back is YOU. The interests IS there and ignore anyone and anything that says the opposite.
And ESPECIALLY ignore anyone who's not for you and your best interests to begin with.
As a full fledged adult you not only have the right, but the DUTY to live YOUR life on your OWN terms and to love who you wish whether anyone else approves or not.
The world is FULL of Quality men who would love nothing more than to marry and have children by an attractive, loving, intelligent, confident, unapologetic and personable black woman.
If these pics can help drive in this point, I'm more than happy to supply the indisputable proof when I come across it.
But we ALL have to do our part online and off to help repair the image of BW and tell the TRUTH about the majority of us. Because as this exodus continues - and more folks become aware of it - the haters are going to go into overdrive because they will realize they're days are slowly becoming numbered.
That's why the existence of these BWE sites are so important. Life saving even. They serve as damage control which is especially needed these days.
I wish everyone a wonderful weekend and remember, these pics are not only meant to inspire. They are ALSO meant to provide BW and WM (and other non BM) the courage to get out there and CONNECT.
Posted by: Felicia | June 11, 2010 at 07:17 PM
I hope you approve this, although I see why you wouldn't. But here is what I think . . .
In regards to the poster who made the following comments --
"Fried chicken at Easter"
That's racist and annoying. I'm black and have never ate fried chicken at Easter. Please let's not beat white people at their own RACIST game. Hearing that comment makes me feel like I'm back in college, at an all-white fraternity, listening to drunk idiots wax philosophical in the cultural realm. Please. Not all black women are fat because they eat fried chicken. There are various, tangible socio-economic reasons that cause blacks (MALE OR FEMALE) to be heavier, on average than whites.
"Being thinner has given me way more options with men point blank"
WOW.
Okay, although I'm definitely not a advocate for obesity, I will say that the mindset demonstrated in this particular posting (and postings like it) is downright misguided. How are you going to put up pictures of black women who are (let's be honest) obese, and also put up comments of this nature? The bigger women photographed in beautiful wedding gowns -- smiling and SECURE -- SHOW that was "E" has merely TOLD to be exactly antithetical to the truth.
As a black woman who grew up in white communities all of her life, I can say hands down that black women have better attitudes about their bodies (fried chicken or sans fried chicken) than the general white female population. White communities have women that are thinner, sure, but they also have women who kill themselves from dieting, eating disorders and the malaise borne from low self-esteem. Let's strive to be healthy, obviously, but let's not strive to have the mindset that associates thinness with happiness, or the ability to secure men.
To this woman (E), the one who has maintained more men approached her when she became thinner -- has she ever considered that it was the confidence she gained by losing a couple pounds that made her more attractive? And that with the right therapist, life-coach, or MIRROR, she could have had this confidence without necessarily losing the weight? Or is she already so far down the eating disorder path that she thinks her self-worth and her weight have an indirect relationship? That is, her self-worth increases when her weight decreases.
So that is my rant. I am generally a lurker. But cannot resist from responding to HOT MESS.
Posted by: BM | June 11, 2010 at 08:15 PM
I am in agreement about bw going where our stock is higher. Go where love, respect, honor, commitment, and protection is. The pictures show where that is.
Posted by: Joy | June 11, 2010 at 10:46 PM
"If you need to get some help--like therapy, GET IT! If you need to get some cosmetic surgery, GET IT! Lots of women of all groups are getting the help they need of ALL types. Remember that the cosmetic surgery industry was not created for bw and it's NOT bw who are pumping the billions into it that keeps it healthy and thriving. If you need to get different hair, different teeth, different manners, etc. or different whatever, GET IT! Stop waiting for ANYONE to give you permission!!"
So SO so true Evia.
And on a very very personal note..I can fully attest to the absolute feeling of pride and self sufficiency I felt when I stepped outside of what my mother/father/family.. "expected" for me and got the plastic surgery I so very very needed. And ladies, my mother thought she was doing the best she could for me all those teen years when I begged her to take me to see a plastic surgeon because of the shoulder strain and pains I was having. Her answer was always " Nobody is gonna be cutting on my baby..all you need is a better bra..stand up straight you'll be fine all the women on your father's side of the family are well endowed"... Well I for one was not happy, suffered immense pain..strain and suffered a great deal..could never wear cute little tops..oh the fashion misery!!
Long story short..as soon as I could find a job after college graduation, got the health insurance..I had the reduction surgery and NEVER REGRETTED A MOMENT OF MY RECOVERY..and was the happiest and "perkiest" I could ever ever be afterwards!!! LOL!!
Posted by: MsMellody | June 12, 2010 at 05:01 AM
"Having low self esteem and disorders of any type may actually enhance a typical ww's ability to marry up among black, Hispanic, and Asian men because it puts her within their range or their striking distance. The fact is that MANY non-white men CANNOT get or have a much harder time getting a slim ww who has good self esteem."
Evia I am so glad you said this. I just read this response to the "BM" who said he usually just lurks at this site but couldnt help himself and as you pointed out responded with his strawman /distractor comments.
Now as to the weight issue. I can ONLY respond with MY OWN revelation from MY OWN life:
It is a struggle I had won, re-gained some of the weight and have won again. Currently maintaining myself, dated at all stages. BUT the truth remains: I AM HAPPIEST WHEN I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR HOW I LOOK...HOW I FEEL...and my happiness attracted a better quality of life, love etc.
Posted by: MsMellody | June 12, 2010 at 05:33 AM
Most certainly Joy.
Go where LOVE, RESPECT, COMMITMENT, and PROTECTION is.
The pictures do indeed show where all of these BASIC needs can be found.
85-Year-Old CSU East Bay Grad May End Up Homeless
http://cbs5.com/education/elderly.grad.homeless.2.1742973.html
"Cotton is 85 years old. She raised 5 kids, worked hard all her life. But she always loved to learn and in her late 70s she got serious about school and went back to college. On Saturday, she will graduate with a master's degree."
"But there's a twist to this story, and it's not a happy one because Ida Cotton has been living in campus housing for the past 3 years. And on Saturday when she graduates, just like every other student on campus, she's going to have to get out. Cotton has no family to live with in the area. She has no money. Ida has no place to go."
These basic needs we talk about on these BWE sites (and the importance and necessity of attaining them) are fundamental to ones functioning. They are necessary for life. Especially protection. Without that, you have nothing.
That's why I hope interested readers contact Evia to learn more about these Intentional Communities she's mentioned.
Ida Cotton should be a reminder to take care of ones BASIC and ground level needs...
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs )
FIRST AND FOREMOST. Because if they are not met, nothing else matters.
I congratulate Ms. Ida Cotton on completion of her Masters degree but there is NO excuse for her to be in this sad predicament at her age.
Go where LOVE, RESPECT, COMMITMENT, and PROTECTION is.
Posted by: Felicia | June 12, 2010 at 05:48 AM
Love the pictures. Very cheering. I'm always struck by how much the black women and their husbands resemble one another: similar features, hairstyles, and weight / shape.
Being overweight is a death sentence: there's no way to use self-esteem to escape that reality. I see a number of chubby preteens and teens. They appear to be the majority now-a-days.
As for Ida Cotton: I don't understand. Why doesn't she own a home, or qualify for social security, food stamps, and subsidized housing? At least the college is helping her. Too bad all of her children (and possibly grandchildren) are useless to her.
Posted by: Betty Chambers | June 12, 2010 at 08:07 AM
From the Office of Minority Health, U.S. Center for Disease Control:
African American women have the highest rates of being overweight or obese compared to other groups in the U.S. About four (approximately 80%) out of five African American adult women are overweight or obese.
In 2007, African Americans were 1.4 times as likely to be obese as Non- Hispanic Whites.
From 2003-2006, African American women were 70% more likely to be obese than Non-Hispanic White women.
In 2003-2004, African American children between ages 6 -17 were 1.3 times as likely to be overweight than Non-Hispanic Whites.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HEALTH IMPACT OF OBESITY
More than 80 percent of people with type 2 diabetes are overweight.
People who are overweight are more likely to suffer from high blood pressure, high levels of blood fats, and LDL cholesterol -- all risk factors for heart disease and stroke.
In 2007, African Americans were 50% less likely to engage in active physical activity as Non-Hispanic Whites.
Deaths from heart disease and stroke are almost twice the rate for African Americans as compared to Whites.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Evia, I don't know what else can be said about it, either. There is a small percentage of black women that are currently obese that will beat the odds and turn their situation around, but as the writer mentioned, the very worst part of this is the fact the young black girls have this example in front of them 24/7, which is constantly reinforced as "normal".
It doesn't matter if they feel good about the way they look, or have great self-esteem; they're still going to suffer the negative health consequences of being overweight/obese. Those don't disappear just because the other fat women you know tell you that you look good.
I think this try at reminding BW of the dire health consequences of being overweight is probably a futile gesture, though, much as I hate to say it.
And I'm sure it's going to produce fury...
Posted by: point taken | June 12, 2010 at 09:00 AM
As a black woman who grew up in white communities all of her life, I can say hands down that black women have better attitudes about their bodies (fried chicken or sans fried chicken) than the general white female population. White communities have women that are thinner, sure, but they also have women who kill themselves from dieting, eating disorders and the malaise borne from low self-esteem.
I find that we like to make ourselves feel better by pointing out that white women are more likely to be anorexic/bulimic and die from eating disorders.
While this is true, we conveniently ignore the fact that OVEREATING is also an eating disorder. Many black women have weight problems resulting from using food as a protective measure. Many of the larger black female celebrities who once claimed to be "fat and proud" also have histories of sexual abuse and ate as a coping mechanism to keep men away or as a form of self-medication.
Many black women's self-esteem is just as poor as many white women's, but we often express it by eating MORE instead of eating less. But we want to revel in the idea that we love ourselves so much and we celebrate having some "meat on our bones," as if we have a leg up on white women and their "eating disorders."
All while ignoring how our "eating disorders" are killing us every day.
Posted by: Lisa99 | June 12, 2010 at 09:06 AM
I just have to say, you are my hero. I LOVE your blog. You are insightful, honest and oh so intelligent.
As for the obesity issue--I don't understand why there is so much push back from some black women regarding loosing weight. It is in fact true that men of other races tend to prefer svelte women. Why is this wrong? I can't tell you how many times I've heard BW (who prefer BM) say that they are willing to work out, BUT, not TOO hard for fear they will loose their ba-dunk-a-dunk. Is this not the same thing? These women are accommodating the preferences of the men they would like to attract. It is a theory, but the statistic that states black women are more comfortable with their weight than white women stems from the BM preference for "thicker" women.
Posted by: Christelyn D. Karazin | June 12, 2010 at 09:50 AM
[Uh-oh, that sacred cow has gotten riled up!! LOL!
BM, I may decide to respond to some of your points briefly, if I get a chance but I probably won't do it because I know that we could spend the entire rest of our lives arguing/debating this issue. Neither side is going to budge, or I personally won't because I've heard it all before and I've heard it for years.
I have reached the point where I fully agree with those who say that we ought to just leave the over-eating adults to just do themselves in with food. That is their right. However, I would vote today, if this were up for a referendum vote, to take those black children away from those parents who are feeding them to death or harming their children with their out-of-control eating. The only reason I posted the man's note/article link is because it involved children. Children are helpless and defenseless.
I personally would contribute a significant amount of money every year to help support a black child who was being raised by others who had common sense far away from those folks with the EOBWs mindset.
If these suicidal cycles--and severely overeating is one--are ever going to be broken, I believe it'll be when society grows enough balls to take those children from their parent(s), which would be tragic. The current situation is more tragic, IMO. I know parents who are feeding their children to death. I believe this is a form of homicide.
I'm posting your response, and hopefully you've said all you have to say. I won't debate for the sake of debating because it'll just be all heat and no light-- a waste of good time and energy. This is why I think that those people who think a certain way should just stay among others who are likeminded or have similar perspectives. That's a common sense way of controlling friction between dissimilar groups.]
Many of you have lacked the ability to read closely. You know -- reading, that activity some claim to do voraciously.
Here's why:
1. I am not a college student anymore: In regards to: "I can totally sympathize with you as a black college student..." Unless, of course, you meant "I can totally sympathize with your experience when you were a black college student" which would have been much clearer.
2. I am female, not male In regards to the poster who used the pronoun "he" and object "himself" when referring to what I have said.
But that is not the purpose of this post. So allow me to get into that. In actuality, no one can be certain what your gender is and that's not exactly relevant anyway.
First, I will just say that, Evia, I'm blown away by your ability to remain prolific on this site. Your dedication is truly apparent. However, I feel the need to respond to a lot of what you said, which will appear in quotes.
"[This is the bogus RACISM defense. I'm not even going to elaborate on this one. SMH]"
Um, instead of "SYH" why don't you elaborate? I'd really like to know how you've allowed yourself to believe that racism -- which by the way -- is still alive and well is the fault of black people.
---
"[BM, this is the STRAWMAN defense whereby the 2nd person redirects or misdirects the discussion to argue a separate point that s/he wants to argue in order to weaken, refute, or ridicule the argument of the 1st person. I have NEVER said that if a bw is overweight or obese that she absolutely cannot find a loving and lovable Quality man, and commenter E never said that either. So, as an EOBW, you have presented a strawman. I have said many times that "there are NO absolutes in life; instead there are only PROBABILITIES." Some things that we do increase the probability that we will reach a certain goal or will increase the chances that a thing will happen to us or for us, and other things we do decrease the probability. The increase or decrease of the probability is a CHOICE that we (as adults) each have, a matter of free will. I have also pointed out many times that "Exceptions do NOT disprove rules."
---
Evia, I'm glad you paid attention in your Argumentation Theory 101 section and are able to define various defenses that although seem astute, have nothing to do with the matter at hand. I know you never have said that directly said that overweight black women cannot find a mate, but by insisting, rather adamantly, that black women must lose weight, you are maintaining that it will increase their chances of finding a mate. This means that indirectly you are implying that black women that haven't lost the weight have a decreased chance of finding a mate, which transitively suggests that there is a smaller pool of overweight black women that have found partners. Therefore, I was maintaining that the pictures that you post -- that are, undoubtedly, wonderful--are in stark contrast to the points you make directly and indirectly.
Furthermore, by stating that EXCEPTIONS do NOT disprove rules (love the overuse of caps, btw, really gets the point across) you are again implying that bigger black women who find mates are exception to the rule, which means that the rule is: one needs to lose weight to find a loving partner. Of course there are no absolutes, but the closest thing to an absolute would be a rule -- wouldn't you say?
---
"[LOL!!!!!! I'm going to call this the "Fat Black Women Are Happier People" defense. The STRAWMAN is also here. Why introduce ww at all into this argument, except to misdirect it to one that you think you can win? This defense has SO many holes in it. SMH I'll mention a couple."
"First, notice how you have totally dismissed socio-political perks of "white"ness and argue that obese bw are actually much better off than thin ww with eating disorders because bw supposedly have 'better attitudes' about their obesity. LOL!! I'm trying hard here to see how that supposedly 'better attitude' benefits that bw. This is really important because this is one of the main MYTHS that contributes a LOT to bw blowing up on food and other things they consume. Being fat and happy does not prevent diabetes, high blood pressure, heart attacks, cancers, etc. that are directly linked to overweight and obesity. Having this 'better attitude' also doesn't prevent these issues during childbirth that the article above references."
I brought white women into the argument, because your site often makes points about the white community, and how black women should strive to incorporate aspects of this community into their lives. In fact, you go as far as to maintain that black women leave the black community and go to (I'm assuming) the white community. I never said that obese black women are better off than thin white women with eating disorders. I said black women -- AS A WHOLE -- have better attitudes about their bodies. That is what I meant by fried chicken or sans fried chicken (sans means "without"). Perhaps I should have been less cheeky and more direct. My apologies.
Let me expatiate on this: It is a great thing that black women aren't afraid to gain a couple of pounds, it is fantastic that there isn't a pervasive desire to be emaciated, there isn't an obsession with numbers on a scale. It is refreshing (and you'll hear white men speak to this) that black women can go out and not just order salads in fear of cellulite, and I think it's dangerous to want to develop a preoccupation with one's weight. Now, if were talking about matters of health, then by all means lose the weight, but if I recall correctly (and I generally do) "E" was talking about matters of securing men when she said -- "my thinness gives me more options with men." She did not say, "my thinness decreases my chances of high blood pressure." So as to your "being fat and happy.." comment please note that I was saying all black women -- thin, average, big, and obese black women --have better attitudes about their weight, not simply "fat" black women.
But, since we're talking about your "being fat and happy" comment - -wouldn't it better to be "fat and happy" than "fat and miserable?" And, isn't being "fat and happy" more conducive to actually losing weight, as those who are happier are more likely to set goals and follow through on them?
Notice how I consistently use the word "fat" in quotes. "Fat" is not a word that I would ever condone the usage of, especially when referring to women. We cannot use the same hurtful words others use to maim us on our own sisters.
--
"Okay, SOME ww and SOME bw both have unhealthy eating habits. In a fair world, they may be equal, but fairness has nothing to do with the lives we live in this world. So, that's the health angle.
Let's go to the mating/ romance angle now. Who would have the greatest options with men: Kim Kardashian (who could easily have an eating disorder. After all, Princess Di was rumored to have one) or would most men prefer Mo'Nique who was fat and supposedly proud?"
This is really ridiculous and sad Evia. For someone who is doing a good job of uplifting many black women I would expect you to handle this with more tact. First, why bring up Princess Di when there are plenty of white female celebrities who are known to have eating disorders? Google it. I just think Princess Di should not be mentioned in the same breath as Kim Kardashian. You should have picked someone else. What about, Kate Moss -- or Lara Flynn Boyle? Or you know someone who didn't die tragically?
But I'm digressing. You're absolutely right, many Americanized, socially-normed men would choose Kim Kardashian. But those men are not the caliber of men we should be seeking. Any guy -- in my opinion that would choose a non-intelligent, plastic surgery-ridden, "actress" who's claim to fame is a sex tape with a C-List R&B singer, over an intelligent Academy-Award winning actress, successful comedian and TV host is not someone who I would want to mate with. Is that someone who you would want to mate with? I hope not. The problem in the scenario you brought up is not that Mo'Nique is "fat" (which is a terrible choice of words, honestly), the problem is that men's attitudes toward overweight women is DEPLORABLE. We should strive to change that attitude by showing men that high-quality women come in all shapes and sizes, not strive to change ourselves so that we better fit into it.
Just for argument purposes, lets connect this back to health. Do you follow Mo'Nique to the hospital? Do you know how healthy she is? Conversely, do you know that Kim Kardashian is the poster-child of women's health simply because she thin?
" I'll bet that you don't have much good to say about the overwhelming number of higher level black men who will chase down overweight and obese ww and those with other eating disorders or low self esteem for love, marriage, and the white picket fence. The point here is that ww having eating disorders and low self esteem does NOT significantly diminish their ability to marry UP, if they choose--due to socio-political factors that bw do NOT have going for them. Bw, therefore need to control what we CAN control and accentuate our best characteristics. Black women have beautiful bodies. In that contest, we would win HANDS DOWN. Even our worst haters cannot ignore our beautiful bodies, among our other physical features like youthful skin and the firmness of our bodies for decades longer than other women. For ANY female in the patriarchal world, those are MAJOR assets."
Your comment about black men going after obese white women is a RED HERRING. (See, I can do it too -- although, it adds nothing to my argument.)
YES! Black women have beautiful bodies! What you're saying is exactly what I'm saying. Let's not strive to be obese OBVIOUSLY but lets also not strive to start hating out bodies because they don't meet the certain marker of THIN. You sayin BW, therefore need to control what we can control is exactly disordered eating thinking. If you research testimonials of women who have suffered from anorexia and bulimia you will find that many of them focus on a similar sentiment: "my weight was the only thing in my life I felt like I could control, and so I took it to the extreme." Personally, I would much rather see black women focus on their education (and I don't just mean racking up degrees) I mean actually learning from others, the world, and themselves, rather than numbers on a scale.
I really have too much to say, and I don't have that much sitting time to do it. I think your site is great, at times, but I think your message often becomes myopic--there is more to life than landing a man, and I think sometimes your sentiments are focused to narrowly on only that, instead of incorporating many of the life-skill lessons that are necessary to have if one hopes to find a healthy marriage.
I'll add more at another time. That is of course, if you are able to open your ears to anything that isn't what you believe.
Posted by: BM | June 12, 2010 at 09:58 AM
The simple truth is: Black woman hang on with all their might to this fallacy of "not wanting to lose the ba-dunka-dunk..and their thickness" because they still buy into that stupidity being preached to them by black men/ damaged beyond repair men - regardless of color.
It's akin to the DBR man caressing your arm with one hand while he is reaching into his pocket for a sharp knife to cut your throat with the other hand. In other words while these so called men are "whispering" these so called words of approval to bw about their thickness- out of one side of their mouths..they are breaking their necks to date/marry and mate with every other color of woman that gives it her all to keep her appearance up to par!!
In short Black women need to take better care of themselves if they are going to make a move up!!! And I am so glad that we are taking the time to address this so called sacred cow amongst bws. Evia, I especially love this comment of yours...
.."And there is a GREAT or astronomically high probability that during our lifetime, excess weight is and will continue to be a LIABILITY against a typical bw if she's trying to MOVE ON UP.
Posted by: MsMellody | June 12, 2010 at 11:17 AM
Lisa99, thanks for illustrating the flip side of this equation. I would point out something else: that a good number of black women are afraid to exercise because they don't know how to do so without messing up the results of their relaxer + rollerset.
NE ways, if people want to make excuses for being fat and not take action, that is on them.
If the majority of black women had this mythical high self esteem, we wouldn't see so many eating themselves to death and interwining their lives with losers.
Bravado? Sure. High self esteem? Er, not so much.
Posted by: foreverloyal | June 12, 2010 at 11:34 AM
[For the sake of those bw who are hurt by using the word f%t to describe obese people, let's not use that particular f-word when discussing this issue. If I used it in my essay, I'll change it. Some bw ARE fighting to conquer their food demons that were passed down and passed around to them, so let's give those bw credit for fighting back and support them.]
#1 BM, must be obese herself and can't take the fact that you are talking about F%T women.
#2 Do you go on solo vacations yourself?
Posted by: G | June 12, 2010 at 11:35 AM
Yeah, BM, doesn't get it. BM is FULL of BM. No one here is advocating that life is all about finding a man but THIS IS A MARRIAGE SITE. Duh. I have a job, grad classes, family, friends, a mentee, and a black belt. I also love my fiance and all that daily life with a real partner brings. I want all bw to attain that IF they want it. Whenever we start getting to the nitty-gritty of what keeps bw in the box and aloe when she does noo want to be, we get mess like this. "You think you white, you should love yourself at 300lbs, you are a self-hater..." blahblahblah.
I have never had an eating disorder beyond the usual "my body is changing" teen freak-out. I was a state-champion sprinter in high school and an NCAA D-1 runner in college, so I know a lot about eating well and maintaining a good physique. There was never any weight to lose for me to feel confident, though it is and remains obvious to me that being a normal weight has helped and given me more more options socially, in much the same way that speaking with clear diction has given me more options socially. I KNOW the "various, tangible socio-economic reasons" so many black women are large, but I also KNOW most men don't care when crossing BBWs off the list, just like there are various reasons men are DBRs, but I don't care.
BM reveals his/her anti-intellectual bend by saying black women's education is more than "simply racking up degrees". Everyone here knows that, or I thought we did. I smell a rat. Thanks Evia for always being on the ball.
Posted by: E | June 12, 2010 at 11:43 AM
...but by insisting, rather adamantly, that black women must lose weight, you are maintaining that it will increase their chances of finding a mate. This means that indirectly you are implying that black women that haven't lost the weight have a decreased chance of finding a mate, which transitively suggests that there is a smaller pool of overweight black women that have found partners...
WOMEN PAY PRICE FOR BEING OBESE
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/30/us/women-pay-price-for-being-obese.html
"The study, being published today in The New England Journal of Medicine, defined obesity as the top 5 percent of people on an index in which weight is related to height. A typical obese woman in the study was 5 foot 3 and 200 pounds; a typical man was 5 foot 9 and 225 pounds."
"The study found that fat women were more likely to lose socioeconomic status independently of their families' social status or income and independently of how well the women scored on achievement tests when they were adolescents. The fat women were 20 percent less likely to marry, had household incomes that were an average of $6,710 lower and were 10 percent more likely to be living in poverty."
"The effects of obesity on men were more modest. The most significant finding was that obese men were 11 percent less likely to marry."
...Therefore, I was maintaining that the pictures that you post -- that are, undoubtedly, wonderful--are in stark contrast to the points you make directly and indirectly...
I disagree. Evia has posted literally hundreds of BW/WM (and other non BM in lesser degree) couples over the years and a clear majority - and anyone who's viewed this site over the years can attest to this fact - have consisted of average weight to slim black women. I know that at least 90% of the couples I'm coming across online consist of average to slim BW who are IR marrying. The overweight women occasionally featured on this site are in the minority.
Posted by: Felicia | June 12, 2010 at 12:26 PM
Good Point E - THIS IS A MARRIAGE SITE!!!
SO guess what BM - Evia's essays and the overwhelming majority of the comments here will be in SUPPORT of MARRIAGE. And, in support of the positive steps and mind constructs BW can develop to place them in a better more advantageous position for marriage to QUALITY MEN. Quality men who are more than likely going to be outside the color of the black females who read this site. Check the title again : "BLack Female Interracial Marriage Ezine"
Posted by: MsMellody | June 12, 2010 at 12:29 PM
@G re:
#2 Do you go on solo vacations yourself?
Yeah, if it's a trip that involves something that I'm really interested in doing and I know Darren doesn't like to do it or is only there to be with me. That's no fun.
Likewise, I could go with him on the Utah retreat, but I'm not interested in doing that. I've already spent time in the wilderness with him. I don't want to go every year.
__________________________________
@E re:
Everyone here knows that, or I thought we did. I smell a rat.
Of course, my first inkling was that BM is a troll, but I realize that many people are wondering why the sensible AA women don't talk to these BW overeaters. So my MAIN reason for posting this whole exchange is for folks to understand how futile it is. From now on, we can just refer people to this particular discussion. LOL!
___________________________________
@ BM re:
I think your message often becomes myopic--there is more to life than landing a man, and I think sometimes your sentiments are focused to narrowly on only that, instead of incorporating many of the life-skill lessons that are necessary to have if one hopes to find a healthy marriage.
This was the most surprising portion of your entire comment because my site is entitled: Black Female Interracial MARRIAGEwith the emphasis on bw getting married. So it's always mindboggling that, alike you, many others expect for me to talk about or promote other relationships like same race relationships, endorse hooking up, discuss DBR horror stories, etc. Why don't YOU set up a site and talk about what YOU want to talk about??? I won't try to cover every aspect of relationships and if bw vet their mate properly, they won't even have many of the issues that crop up in lots of relationships. That's why I focus so much on VETTING.
And if I ever were to start writing about having a more satisfyuing marriage--which is a separate topic--I'd do it via a newsletter, podcast privately. Why would anyone expect for me to give away for free ALL of my knowledge and expertise. Lots of people pay lots of money to rent movies, cable, spend it on junk etc., so if they consider what I have to offer to be of use to them, then they will pay me too.
Posted by: Evia | June 12, 2010 at 12:55 PM
Thanks so much for posting that info, Felicia!
I thought that it was just DUH knowledge that slimmer women generally have lots more advantages than overweight women. Here's another article that someone sent me recently. It's not fair but life has NEVER been fair. It attests to those advantages in the romantic realm.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623091125.htm
And it's purely magical thinking for any woman to think the overwhelming proportion of men are going to change at any point in our lifetime to the point where they'll prefer obese women. But hey, a tiny portion of men prefer obese women now. If obese women prefer to wait around for those men to find them, then good luck to them.
Posted by: Evia | June 12, 2010 at 01:23 PM
Actually, Evia, I think that the critique that your message is "myopic", is the most TELLING part of the comment.
There's more to life than alot of things, alot of which are less important than marriage. Does BM go to sports sites and tell the blog hosts there that they are myopic, because there's more to life than basketball or the World Cup? Or NASCAR enthusiasts, Pet owners, etc.?
Why lurk on a site with such a "myopic" viewpoint?
Hmmm...
Posted by: foreverloyal | June 12, 2010 at 01:29 PM
Well, from someone who is obese, this is my take, Evia.
I am 5'8. I currently weigh 233 lbs. 3 years ago, I weighed 301, I went down to 215 last year and I regained 30 lbs this year after getting injured. I've lost 10 lbs since the beginning of May.
I am obese by all means of health. I'm not in danger of death like I once was but I'm definitely not where I want to be.
Every woman isn't the same. I ate because of my low self-esteem, insecurities from being called ugly, a nerd, wannabe white girl when I was growing up. Some other obese women may have ate for the same things. It's easy to eat, food is everywhere. But when it comes to IR marriage, the heavier you are, the more it will affect your chances.
Yes, there are obese BW who are in IR marriages. But the majority of non-Black men want a woman who is fit or relatively fit. Men in general like a woman who is smaller than them, it helps them to feel like they are the protector when it comes to their relationships. But also, weight can show if you have self-control (which I used to not have); if you're secure; if you care about your body, etc. Especially, a lot of times, if you are obese, it looks like you don't care about your body. If you seem like you don't care about your body, you won't live that long and/or without health problems. It'll also affect how you treat your kids, what you can do with your children. If a man is looking for marriage, he's looking at all of those things.
I only know what's good for me and since I've lost weight and began to seriously work on the issues that lead me to eat, I've been calmer, happier, less moodiness, and more able to focus and ignore the trash that tries to interfere in my life. (yes, that's right).
Posted by: KM | June 12, 2010 at 09:10 PM
Full disclosure: I've been an overweight girl and woman, and I'm in the process of losing weight. Also, long post.....straight ahead.
While I reject the message that it's hopeless (or I'm a lost cause) because I've been overweight most of my adult life, I've also never been delusional about overweight/obese black women having the same access to quality men that average weight/thin women do. So I've no problem with what E posted. PREACH.IT. And may I reiterate, for those who believe only thin(ner) women like to slaughter the sacred cow of large black women and quality of life/romantic prospects:
I'm not thin, nor have I ever been thin (YET)- and I have no problem with this truth, or those who state facts.
Heck, my losing weight has little to do with my health and EVERYTHING to do with my desire to increase and leverage my social, sexual, and financial capital as well as fulfill my lifelong dream to travel more (I've done a bit, but it's difficult to travel a lot being grossly overweight). I'll improve my health by further reducing risk factors such as arthritis, and all the better.
Yes, I said it - losing my weight has little to do with my health.
But then, perhaps I'm medically abnormal - never been afflicted with hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, insulin resistance, or other obesity comorbidities. I'm NOT saying ignore the statistics, and I'm NOT recommending other women ignore their health. But so often, the topic of obesity/losing weight is only discussed within the "medical health" framework, because no one wants to talk about the social, economic, and yes romantic aspects of it (other than perhaps the fat acceptance advocates).
While I believe all people, no matter the size, deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, I'm not crazy either. Getting down to a normal weight is something I can control (unlike my gender or race) and leverage to my advantage (ironically, I can leverage gender and race, when done properly). That's not about downing any other woman, but about my self-preservation and high(er) quality of life.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard BW (who prefer BM) say that they are willing to work out, BUT, not TOO hard for fear they will loose their ba-dunk-a-dunk.
I'm gonna guess that 9 out of 10 of women with this fear are involved with (or desire) lower class men. Which is fine, if that's what they want. But I know my share of grossly overweight black women who feel entitled to the crème de la crème of (usually black) men, and that makes no sense to me. You're not bringing your A-game, in comparison to most other non-black American women and/or trim black American women, and you expect the same access to quality men? Chile, please.
And frankly, if the only way a woman believes she can have curves is by being overweight......that's a problem. I used to believe that as well, and I've had men tell me that before, and guess what? Those men were not of high caliber. As someone else said, think about why a man would encourage you NOT to get down to a more normal weight? Who does that benefit?
Re: not working out because of relaxed hair
I don't understand this argument. I will never understand how having relaxed hair impedes exercise.
Posted by: Daphne | June 12, 2010 at 09:28 PM
A good example of a thin woman who is not the most prettiest woman on earth is Sarah Jessica Parker. However, because she is thin, seems to have self-confidence, and OK acting skills she was able to garner herself a good acting career.
The majority of people are aware that being thin or medium build has its advantages. I was at a dept. store today and the clerk was telling the bw not to refer to themselves as f%t. lol, Who is she fooling with those cute nicknames for f%t. Too much f%t can kill you. Lets face the f%t demon. Get a workable plan and work that plan every day.
Posted by: Ann | June 12, 2010 at 11:01 PM
[Readers: As expected, there are those who want to enter this discussion to work out their issues about bw's weight and their issues with other content on my site.]
To those people: If you don't like what you read here, do yourself a favor and stay away. That is simply common sense. I will not engage in any discussion with you for more than a minute or not at all in which I know from the outset will be all heat and no light. You're getting your blood pressure up for nothing.
Furthermore, I will not subject my readers and commenters to your vitriol. This is not a staging ground for you to fight a war against those of us who are not of a likemind or similar-mind to yours.
As I've said numerous times: When people are not likeminded or similarminded enough and try to mingle with each other, there will be constant friction and infighting. I can promise you that.
I know some of you think that since I'm an AA and you're an AA, that we should be able to communicate and hang out. Well, we cannot because in essence, we don't speak the same language anymore. And I've made it clear that I'm not trying to save 'alla our people.'
In my experience, AAs are the least monolithic people I've ever encountered, so it's sad that so many AAs continue to try to force this "getting along" with each other when we have different thought systems, different value systems and therefore speak different languages. Lots of AAs need to face the fact that we are very different now than we were pre-Civil Rights days. This is just a fact. And if we continue to try to force this association with each other, there is going to be a major civil war among AAs.
The ONLY commonality that most AAs have today is that we have a shared experience of racism, and many AAs continue to struggle with some aspect(s) of racism to a greater or lesser extent.
However subsets of AA women and other women and men of other groups/races in the global village DO have many commonalities in outlook and values, and that's who I gear my message towards. Those are the only people that I urge likeminded and similarminded AA women to gravitate towards and develop their network.
If you do not understand this and mostly accept this, then I'm not talking to you. You are not in this subset. It would be best for you to go and find your own subset. In other words, you need to stop trying to twist my thinking to agree with your thinking. It won't happen.
I don't understand why some of you continue to try to force me to agree with you and get furious at me when I don't. I'm like that 'tree that's planted by the water; I shall not be moved,' by OPI's. Sigh. Give it up already! It's not going to work with me. I do not care whether you agree with me. I will continue writing and saying what I want to say until I get tired. In other words, stop reading my site. Click on by this site! Break your addiction to my site. Get some help for your obssession with my site!
And I may write forever because writing is thinking. I'm expressing what I think.
The solution for you is to find people who have your thought system, your value system, and speak your language.
Posted by: Evia | June 13, 2010 at 05:59 AM
Hi Everybody,
As a white man I can verify that men (black or white) don't want obese women, for the most part. There are a few men who do. I think they're called "Chubby Chasers". Part of that nomenclature suggests its a slight perversion. I've heard men talk about being married for ten years or so and then "watching their wives grow fat". Obesity is at epidemic levels in this country. Europeans call it "the American Affliction". A big part of it is our addiction to fast food and "Super Sizes". We literally eat twice a much as we need to. Half pound hamburgers and unlimited french fires make us gain weight and dull our taste buds for more delicate tasting foods.
Let me make it simple: any woman--black or white---who believes there's a battalion of men out there with an enormous appetite for obese women is fooling herself. If an obese woman thinks she's comfortable with herself at 250 pounds, she is again fooling herself. Everyone with any self respect wants to be as attractive as possible, especially a young woman. Saying that your comfortable with yourself is simply a self serving alibi.
As long as I've been reading this blog, Evia has been doing everything to make all of you understand what you need to know to be a socially accepted woman whom men find desirable. Tell me which of you really DON'T want to be desirable and then you can gain all the weight you'd like.
I don't mean to be hurtful, but Evia is trying her best to bring you into the real world, not the world of the BC, but the REAL world we all have to live in. You all want to be successful, find a quality man and work for happiness. Happiness lies in the real world. And the real world doesn't care about idealism or fairness.
JF
Posted by: JJinPA | June 13, 2010 at 10:16 AM
It is beyond me that people want to argue about whether obesity is okay in black women.
As I think about this topic more and more and especially in light of observations I have made from conversations with people in my "non-virtual world," I have come to realize that if a young woman does not develop exercise habits when she is around the age of 18 or so, it will be more and more difficult to begin later.
But it always helps to start. An overweight woman can lose weight, prevent herself from becoming obese and can get herself in normal range, or at least, look it, if she exercises a lot.
You mentioned this, Evia, the exercise strategies you pursued when you were of college age.
It's just mind-boggling, that a good number of young black women go away to colleges where the schools offer the most amazing gym facilities and health care access through Student Health Services, yet it seems that so many of them don't take advantage of these.
I can't tell you of numbers of women I know of who have exercise equipment at home and tapes, etc., but who don't use them.
Think of it, when you're young, your metabolism is in the best position to get kicking in to get you on the right path to developing disciplined exercise habits.
But what I'm hearing is supreme laziness and lack of discipline, if anything. One should feel overjoyed at exercising, pushing the limits of one's body, getting the endorphins going.
Yet, when I was in school, most of the black girls I knew were doing nothing, and these are not women who had to work at taking care of young children.
Or others with young children don't join and don't use the childcare facilities that are available. Yet I see women with babies who are six weeks old showing up to exercise, and these are women who exercised to the very end of their pregnancies.
A friend who is a type two diabetic lost a lot of weight to have her baby, then put on a whole lot, even when she had an ideal work schedule which would have enabled her to work out regularly.
Another woman I know who is also diabetic has school-aged children but works from home. No exercise routine, nothing.
Exercise is the ideal practice for either preventing the development of diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, or minimizing its effects. Exercise to get it under control or alleviate it altogether, especially when the excess pounds are lost.
Posted by: pioneervalleywoman | June 13, 2010 at 12:35 PM
@KM re:
I am 5'8. I currently weigh 233 lbs. 3 years ago, I weighed 301, I went down to 215 last year and I regained 30 lbs this year after getting injured. I've lost 10 lbs since the beginning of May.
Congratulations! You're on your way! That's 10 lbs in about 6 weeks! Please keep it up! If you can lose this amount every 6 weeks or so, it won't be long before you reach your goal and you will also have developed a new habit of keeping the weight off using whatever techniques you're using.
I ate because of my low self-esteem, insecurities from being called ugly, a nerd, wannabe white girl when I was growing up.
Let's call it what it is: You were terrorized and I'll bet that your terrorists were other blacks, specifically AAs. I've noticed that there is a segment of AAs who LOVE to call other folks "ugly."
And THANK YOU for your real talk. You can reach many people who struggle with food because they believe you understand.
I cannot eat when I'm stressed. Food will get stuck in my throat and it's also tasteless. When I'm stressed for more than a few hours, I have to force myself to eat. Also, I've never associated food with relieving stress. When I was a child, I was not allowed to eat between meals, so if I got upset or stressed an hour after breakfast, for ex., I would have had to wait until lunchtime to eat. So, I never learned to lean on food. I learned to relieve my stress by reading, engaging in physical activity, or creating things.
These days, I meditate for stress relief or I create crafts, play games, or do other things. Also, I've set up my life so that I live in the "slow" lane. I have minimal stress. Some people would call my life "boring" out here.
Just about everyone can live in the slow(er) lane, wherever they live, IF they choose, but many people want to live in the fast lane and still grumble about the stress or collapse from it.
And please continue to ignore that trash. LOL! The less you expose yourself to trash or ignore it, the more successful you'll be at reaching any goal because you'll have mnore energy to devote to your goal.
___________________________
@Daphne, thank you for supporting common sense. It is getting harder and harder to find people who support common sense.
re:
I don't understand this argument. I will never understand how having relaxed hair impedes exercise.
I don't either. I've worn my hair relaxed and I still worked out, as usual.
_________________________________
@JJ re:
As a white man I can verify that men (black or white) don't want obese women, for the most part.
Thank you JJ! Many men don't tell women this though--because they want to use that woman for something. I've heard men talk about some of the things they can do to obese women (white and black) simply because they feel that she doesn't have a choice. Those women are so wounded by what those men do to them because they know they're being degraded. Most bw DO want choices in men, no matter how much they may declare that they don't care. That's simply bravado.
______________________________
@PVW re:
It is beyond me that people want to argue about whether obesity is okay in black women.
It's just unreal!
And you're so right about developing that fitness regimen when younger. For ex., I feel uncomfortable if I go for more than 2 days without working out, and I can't get rid of the feeling. That discomfort is stressful, so I have to work out to get rid of it. LOL! That's because working out/exercise is a habit that I started when I was in my late teens. It helped that I had a close girlfriend in college who was also fitness conscious.
Then my first husband was a soccer and tennis fiend, so I was always running with him to practice or games. That reinforced the fitness mindset. Darren, too, is very active and very focused on eating in a healthy manner. We do rollerblading together, hiking, walking, etc. I do biking with girlfriends here. As a matter of fact, I have set up a biking and leisure club at the predominantly black church we attend. There are about 4 bw who were happy to join. I bike just about every day by myself or sometimes I'll miss a day due to the weather or if I'm too tired.
However, even when I'm in the house, I do workouts with my weights and walk up and down the stairs as much as possible. So it's bogus for bw to blame lack of exercise on their unsafe neighborhood. I did 75 sit-ups a day and yoga on my bedroom floor after I had my children, to get my belly back in place and firm. I also did aerobics in my living room.
It's ironic that the bm minister mentioned bw's weight in church today and warned them about diabetes, but he was VERY careful.LOL!
Posted by: Evia | June 13, 2010 at 02:25 PM
Your Minister must be reading your post.
Posted by: Ann | June 13, 2010 at 03:43 PM
Thanks for the great post!
I'm a college student currently battling my own weight issues(50 down, 35 more to go! WHOOT!!!) and I'm glad you pull no punches. My obesity is a sick "norm" on my father's side of the family but my mother's people were slim well until mid forties. Even my mother was "model" size growing up. My sister and I have had an uphill battle with weight but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop midway and go "You know what, I'll settle for this body." If we won't settle for less than spectacular men then we shouldn't settle for less than spectacular bodies. I'm proud to say I busted my butt to get smaller and its opened a lot more doors for me. Men notice me, good looking men. I don't have to be nice just so I can be liked(that whole mess of bs). And I've found meditation and yoga and belly dancing which all brighten my life.
And I wouldn't have gotten anywhere for settling.
Posted by: Goddess M | June 13, 2010 at 08:28 PM
I know the Obesity thing has been talked and talked, but adding my 2 cents. I want to add, do we really know the difference between obesse and being healthy but bigger than the norm? What I mean is a personal trainer asked a colleage of mine if you weighed 180 pounds but were a size 10 would you care? It depends on how the weight is caried to the trainer mentioned a 180 pound woman at 6'2 is not necessarily overweight. I know that Evia and others are talking about the ones who are fat and or obese due to poor diet, no exercise, and NEGLECT but if there are Obese AA women reading this post that no matter what you do the weight is not coming off, it might be a thyoid problem or a chemical imbalance that might require medical attention. I used to work at a hospital and learned alot. There was one woman who was about 400 pounds and when she would come in for appointments people would look at her in disgust assuming she had 50 pies for dinner. What people did not know was that a gland in her body was secreting excessive abounts of cotisol into her body and they were trying to get it under control this woman ate very little but was still gaining weight due to this condition. I Know this is the exception, I just wanted to say there are some women who do not know they are dealing with a medical disorder and need to get help, but 99% just need to stop eating poorly and take better care of themselves
Posted by: S.Greene | June 13, 2010 at 11:53 PM
....."What people did not know was that a gland in her body was secreting excessive abounts of cotisol into her body and they were trying to get it under control this woman ate very little but was still gaining weight due to this condition.".....
Unfortunately due to conditioning to care for those who do not care back and indoctrination from the now basically in many ways anti-BW black "community" (collective), there are countless BW I would imagine suffering from elevated cortisol levels due to intense and constant STRESS from living in unlivable and dangerous (both physical and psychological) environments, and supporting various leaches.
BW suffering excess weight gain due to environmental stress - which increases cortisol levels - need to lay their burdens DOWN. Let those non-contributing and non-reciprocating leaches SINK.
Get a new attitude that is focused on SELF-fulfillment and actualization and MOVE away (physically, emotionally, and psychologically) from the source of the pain and trauma.
http://www.womentowomen.com/adrenalfatigue/default.aspx
ADRENAL HEALTH IN WOMEN
"When faced with a stressful situation, our bodies rely on the adrenal glands sitting atop our kidneys to monitor our “fight or flight” response. For the most part, our stress response evolved from short-term events — crises that came and went. If we had to run from a predator, for example, our healthy adrenal glands responded by releasing adrenaline, which makes us more alert and focused, and cortisol, which converts protein to energy and releases our stored sugar, glycogen, so our bodies have the fuel needed to respond quickly. In concert, the adrenal response rapidly increases our heart and respiratory rates and blood pressure while releasing energy, tensing our muscles, sharpening our senses, and slowing our digestion so we are primed to escape or fight back, whichever is needed. When the threat is gone, the body returns to normal — quickly with respect to adrenaline levels, less quickly with respect to cortisol."
"But in today’s society, women are inundated with stress — stress that doesn’t let up. And when chronic stress repeatedly forces the adrenal glands to sustain high levels of cortisol, two things happen: first, the adrenals can’t attend to their broader role in hormonal regulation because the same resources they use to make hormones like estrogen are required to make cortisol, and second, cortisol starts to damage healthy tissues. Eventually, adrenal fatigue sets in, and many women experience symptoms such as weight gain, fatigue, insomnia, fuzzy thinking, depression, cravings and mood swings. Once the adrenals become depleted, it can lead to adrenal exhaustion and much more serious health concerns."
Posted by: Felicia | June 14, 2010 at 06:45 AM
I hate to say it, but it's the same deal in my family, my mother tells me and my sister that all the women in our family are just "big", and also, that BW are just "big" compared to other women.
My mother is five feet, six inches tall, and somewhere around 270 pounds. She has diabetes, hypertension, arthritis, and a heart murmur, all at 43 years old. Lots of hamburger helper and pizza, and it just keeps coming. I worry about her all the time.
My sister and I are both overweight, and always have been, and I am trying to get down to 150 from a high of 202 right now through diet and excercise. I am 5'5" and as of this morning, 182. My mother tells both of us all the time that we look fine, and we're healthy, so there's no problem.
My sister is about the same weight as me and isn't doing anything about her weight.
The photos we have of my grandmother and my great grandmother show very fit, stylish women, so I knew a long time ago that my mother was choosing to believe what she wanted about her weight and my weight.
And BW aren't just "big" either. That is BS! I watch old episodes of Soul Train from the Seventies cause I like the music, and all of those black women on there are in great shape, with thin arms and flat stomachs, and I'm talking about the young people dancing to the songs, not the performers. They're not professional dancers, they're just kids off the street that made it into the studio for the taping of a show.
My sister already does stupid stuff for men, because she feels like she has to do anything they say, give them money, etc. just to keep them around, because she's so obese.
And my mother tells both of us all the time, "don't worry, you'll find a man that loves you just the way you are", which to her means some black man, because my mom is TOTALLY against IR dating, and to me means some black guy that will treat us like crap for a few years until we get the nerve to kick him out.
Talk about an enabler of bad decisions, right?
I love my mom, but she is content to see us become her, which is: never been married, two children she's raising alone, grossly overweight, health problems galore, self-esteeem issues, used by no-good men, etc.
It just makes me want to cry sometimes when I think about her. She's just stuck in this box she can't get out of.
Posted by: Raven | June 14, 2010 at 11:38 AM
OMG, I love all the photos! Hopin' for my own soon!
@Daphne -
I could have written your comment myself. I agree with EVERYTHING you wrote 100%.
Posted by: Jayte | June 14, 2010 at 01:57 PM
@GoddessM and Raven--You must fight, fight, and fight some more and be determined that you WILL win against those food demons. I believe that y'all will be some of the fortunate bw who will get your weight under control.
I BEG you to please don't let whatever is causing so many bw to blow up and live blighted lives get you too. Please don't let it win with you!! Keep saying to yourselves: "I will NOT let IT win!!
Posted by: Evia | June 14, 2010 at 02:29 PM
@ Evia:
Just a question...Have you heard of SparkPeople?
It is supposed to be a free website geared towards assisting people to lose weight. It was founded by Chris Downie and his wife. I went to that site last night and so far it does appear to be a good site for those who may be interested.
Posted by: ann | June 14, 2010 at 02:53 PM
To Raven:
You are an intelligent young woman because you recognize the difference between being healthy and unhealthy, become more educated about nutrition and exercise. Everyone is familiar with the old saying, "Misery loves company."
I too have my share of weight issues; however, I did not allow my son to simply graze. One person in the house with those types of issues was enough. Today, my son is a gym enthusiast. Become more active at your school, club or church.
You and your sister can be each others' excerise buddy, if you can pull her away from those leeches.
Posted by: ann | June 14, 2010 at 03:18 PM
@ Raven and GoddessM
Keep at it girls! There's nothing like seeing your body shrink and being able to run, hop, skip, do anything that you'd like.
@Evia
I'm going to keep on losing the weight, especially after this weekend.
I managed to go out by myself (!) to a really popular Irish bar to watch the USA vs England World Cup match. Didn't know anyone but I ended up watching the game with a nice group of guys who made sure I was fine (no one bothered me, did get some side-eyes from BM but who cares about them). I had a great time and I'll probably go there again in the future. I know if I was bigger, with less confidence, and if I wasn't open to WM, I would have been miserable on Saturday.
Posted by: KM | June 14, 2010 at 06:24 PM
I think this (just from what I'm seeing)is mainly a problem in the AA community. I'm from the Caribbean, and the issue of fat/obese being good is a no no in my family. We never saw that as a positive, so all through out high school and college I made sure to keep myself in shape. Plus I'm not a fan of fast food, to me they are tasteless.
Posted by: caridad | June 14, 2010 at 06:29 PM
" I know if I was bigger, with less confidence, and if I wasn't open to WM, I would have been miserable on Saturday."
True.
Posted by: Ann | June 14, 2010 at 08:30 PM
Nice blog here, very positive!
Many people especially women get extremely jealous when they see IR couples and marriages because IR couples show true love triumphs over even the strongest hatred!
I am a black woman married to a european man and i have had many women get VERY jealous and nasty with me when they find out i am married to a white man.
They question the validity of our marriage make comments about black women's features and suggest that our marriage must not be real because noone really wants black women!
If i was a European woman i would be getting congrats and support but because i am a black woman married to a white man i get jealous catty remarks from strangers! LOL
You have to learn to ignore people like this, because they are just angry that you are happy and that you have somebody that loves you!
Posted by: ErzulieRedEyes | June 15, 2010 at 12:48 AM
I am 110 pounds!
I am tired of black women being portrayed in the media as always obese, fat, out of shape!
There are skinny thin black women that exist!
I have been teased and told that i must be a drug addict or i must have aids because black women aren't supposed to be skinny! LOL
Women come in all shapes and sizes and not all black women are fat and obese!
Try to eat veggies and fruits, stick to a good exercise plan and you'll be fine!
Posted by: ErzulieRedEyes | June 15, 2010 at 12:56 AM
@ Felicia, Wow I did not know that the cortisol issue is affected by stress. A doctor told me that for some women the key to losing physical weight is to lose the emotional weight first. So what you are saying ties into that. I know that it spoke to me and I dropped 5 dress sizes once I started letting go of the emotional weight, I lost the physical.
Posted by: S.Greene | June 15, 2010 at 02:03 AM
Felicia, that Ida Cotton story reminds me of the story of Sean Taylor's Mom. Sean Taylor was a young bm NFL player who was killed in his home in a robbery in FL a few years back. He had various a HW babymama and his house and insurance$ and bank accounts were left to her and their child (and of course, her Hispanic family indirectly). Sean Taylor's mother, who was living in a house he bought and maintained I guess, went to the press and NFL for help bc she had no way of paying her bills. The HW babymama did not seem to be offering her anything. He had not set up life insurance for the mother who steered him to his college and NFL success.
This sounds morbid, but we must plan ahead. My father and I talk about what to do if he should pass. He has insurance, savings, etc., not a ton, but enough for me and brothers to share. I lost my mother ten years and my Dad got serious about sharing his personal, financial info with me, as my two brothers are younger. I know my fiance's parents have also planned ahead financially for both their old age and their passing, which makes me feel even more secure about marrying him. Passing on inter-generational wealth is the true sign and benefit of middle class stability.
My dad's sister died at 52 in 2006 of cancer. She never married or had kids (long story)and she was frugal to the max, by choice. She was a postal worker for 25 years. She owned a home but was not at all flashy. She left each of us, my 2 brothers, 3 cousins, and me $15,000 each. That was not a ton of $, but a welcome gift, and tax free! I used it with some savings to buy in full my apartment/condo in a gentrifying urban neighborhood. This small gift from my aunt means all I have to pay in housing costs are a small monthly condo fee and property taxes which are, of course, tax deductible. When Jon moved in 3 months after we became engaged (after much discussion, I promise you all) he too, benefited by not having to pay a ton in rent. We can now start to get serious about our grad school loans and building a serious $ cushion. Family estate planning, even for the decidedly non-wealthy, is essential.
There were stories in all the papers at the height of the downturn of black women who had worked, tithed, raised kids and grandkids, with nowhere to go in their time of need. Too man BW spend their whole lives caring for others and in their most vulnerable moments have no one who would take them in or help out? I felt the same about the Debra Dickerson story. I know that I have aunts, cousins, friends, pals, who would take me in today if I were in dire straits. A woman especially, must cultivate these mutually beneficial and reciprocal relationships.
Posted by: E | June 15, 2010 at 06:31 AM
S. Greene and E.
GREAT recent comments. That's the beauty of these discussions. We all have the opportunity to learn and pass on what ever information we've gathered that can be of help to someone.
Each one teach one.
Posted by: Felicia | June 15, 2010 at 07:59 AM
Are you serious? If only AAs eat fried chicken and watermelon, then please tell me where you got it stashed. Me and a whole bunch of hungry white boys want to raid the place...But first Popeye's....although I hear its owned by folks of Middle Eastern descent. . . .
Posted by: Tom Tarter MD | June 15, 2010 at 04:04 PM
@Ezulieredeyes I think the reason you deal with issues with your size from other people is becasue of the "mammy" characature that satuates our society. This long standing sterotype of the asexual overweight black woman who cares for eveyone else but does not care for herself is one of the standards by which black women are constantly measured. The media keeps this sterotype alive (along with the oversexed "jezebel" sterotype) becasue it makes the BW safe and non-threatening to the accepted standards of beauty and many times when BW don't fit the sterotype they experince opposition. I read a true story about a bw who sings jazz who is 5'3 and a size 4; she had a great voice and could sing the phone book. She began to notice whenever she performed she would receive dirty looks from some members of the audience, especially white women. After expereincing this subtile rejection at many of their gigs, she asked memebers of her band (black and white men) what was going on. They told her "Well you don't fit their preceonceived notion of what a jazz singer looks like, you are "supposed" to be a big fat black woman; you are not "supposed" to be petite" When I was larger, I would have white people approach me all the time saying "you I find it annoying becasue I know that the inquiry was coming from a sterotype that "big black women can sing". The image of BW has been badly dammaged in the media and there seems to be an agenda to keep these sterotypes intrenched in the minds of society and in the minds of BW, so they "accept" it as normal. Being obese is not normal and giving it names like "thick and juicy", "bootylicious", etc. does not change that!
Posted by: S.Greene | June 16, 2010 at 01:00 PM
I am petite and am looked at as a novelty by black and white women as if black women are only suppose to be overweight.
I just started seeing this Caucasian man. We went out to an event one night. We separated for a while to talk to other folks. I saw him talking to an Asian lady at one point. I thought nothing of it of course until later in the night she kept cutting her eyes at me. I just ignored it until I saw her constantly waving at my date. For instance if he was on the other side of the room, she would just wave at him. This happened a few times. I thought it was weird but funny.
From what I've seen and somewhat experienced, if the black woman is really attractive, white women/asian women tend to back off, but if they think she is average and that they can compete, then they get catty and you know the rest....LOL
Posted by: Shan | June 16, 2010 at 03:23 PM
@ Shan,
Your friend must have appeared to be financially stable. It would appear most Asian women always have an eye for wm who are financially stable, we cannot hold that against them. IMO, some Asian women can be just as cut throat as any other race of women, they just do it with some stealth.
That particular Asian woman must have reasoned that your friend was a good catch and she knew her time was short to get his attention.
She probably thought that she could easily taken him from you. Hmmm, didn't she come with her own male friend or was she out hunting? She probably figured that she has taken bm from bw and a wm would also be an easy catch for her.
I have read online replies from Asian women who say they are desired by all races of men and that they can have their picks of men, such arrogance. IMHO, that same type of arrogance has wm looking away from ww and towards other race women.
Posted by: Ann | June 19, 2010 at 06:57 AM
r/Obesity: our obesity rates hinge on our acceptance of who we are in the same manner as self acceptance alleviates the colorism or hair issues black women have. I'll give a personal example. I hated my beautiful hair until I learned to accept its beautiful curls, with acceptance came the realization that I was caring for my curly/coily hair as if it was straight. As soon as I accepted that what is - is! Clarity ensued. The same is true for weight. I had to accept fully the fact that I am not white. Therefore, I had to stop eating as if I was white. Meaning, I learned to eat for my ancestry. Most blacks have been stuck for centuries eating a diet designed for caucasians. Quiet as it's kept, as recently as 100 years ago our diets were closer to an authentic ancestral diet, less chemicals, less processed food, less meat, more green leafy vegs, less fat. It's interesting that we recognize that normally thin Asians that switch to a western diet suffer almost immediate weight gains, as succeeding generations continue to eat western, disease and ill health rise. Any zoo keeper understands the concept of eating for your species. Yet we don't eat for our ethnicity/ancestry. Yet there's and eat right for your blood type book on the best seller list. I say all this to say: Most blacks are not biologically equipped to digest/assimilate milk products of any kind (lactose/caseine intolerance). Gluten grains (wheat, rye, oats, barley, corn), this includes livestock raised on the above grains. [ I remember in school reading about a slaver upset due to losses of slaves on slave ships, they discovered that a large part of it was due to feeding the slaves a gruel of oats. The slaves couldn't process the grain. It's part of the reason so many west african food staples were transplanted to the Americas. They had to start bringing the foods on board as provisions because western food was killing the slaves.] Soy products unless fermented prior (notice, Asians don't eat unfermented soy?). Xeno hormones (this is the real killer for black women) which is injected into most livestock and therefore is present in eggs and dairy as well as the meat. Lastly we don't exercise. Did you know blacks contain a higher abundance of certain types of muscle fiber, most body builders know this, in other words - we are designed for physical activity. It is why you can have 74yo black women body builders that look 40 years younger than they are. So once again sisters we are not acknowledging who we are and it's killing us. Start eating like the African descended people that you are and the weight will fall off. This is another revolution in the self acceptance war, the truth will always set you free.
Posted by: Xai | June 19, 2010 at 09:52 AM
@Xai re:
Therefore, I had to stop eating as if I was white. Meaning, I learned to eat for my ancestry. Most blacks have been stuck for centuries eating a diet designed for caucasians. Quiet as it's kept, as recently as 100 years ago our diets were closer to an authentic ancestral diet, less chemicals, less processed food, less meat, more green leafy vegs, less fat. It's interesting that we recognize that normally thin Asians that switch to a western diet suffer almost immediate weight gains, as succeeding generations continue to eat western, disease and ill health rise.
Sounds interesting, and I don't know whether you're a pure-blooded African or an AA, or . . ., however we have to keep in mind that AAs were a LOT more active 100 years ago and AAs are not "pure" Africans. There's lots of mixture.
Also the overwhelming number of Africans are NOT overweight. We have to be careful when talking about "African-descended" people to make sure that whatever sweeping conclusions we reach applies to ALL African descended people. If it doesn't, then it's not based on simply having African genes.
There is much that we see occurring among AAs that ONLY occurs among AAs. So it obviously is not wholly due to African genetic makeup. For ex., for years in college and grad school, I read book after book from AA "scholars" claiming that schools need to change the way they educate black boys in America because black boys--according to these scholars--are not genetically equipped to sit still in the classroom and pay attention to what the teacher is teaching. These scholars presented all kinds of research findings claiming that it had to do with their African genetic makeup. They asserted that the African genes make boys more physical, more energetic, so how dare anyone expect black boys to sit still like girls and non-black boys! LOL!
This almost sounds like white racists who compare blacks to animals, doesn't it?
Anyway, these scholars claimed it was downright racist to even expect black boys to do this. I actually believed these scholars until I lived in Nigeria. LOL! Well. I was shocked to find out that Nigerian boys sat still in the classroom, followed school rules, and paid attention to the teacher just like the girls did or even moreso than the girls.
So those AA scholars had been presenting bogus or invalid research findings for decades!!! Nigerian boys are full-blooded or virtually full blooded Africans, or much moreso than AA boys, so if anyone should be more physical and energetic, it would be them if those scholars are to be believed, yet those Nigerian boys could sit basically still for the entire class period sitting all too often in HOT, HOT weather everyday in uncomfortable chairs on a slab of cement under a propped up roof made out of corrugated tin in classrooms that had no walls!!! And they sat still and learned!
So I realized that these black scholars here were poverty pimping and had to exclude all other black boys in the world from their research in order to reach those conclusions. They were so focused on making 'de evil wm' feel guilty and squeezing more money out of white liberals.
So, I'm VERY careful about anything I read that pertains to AAs that is supposedly due to African genes. LOL! Most likely, it's some sort of excuse.
The really bad part about that bogus research is that just about every AA I know BELIEVES what those scholars said--since AAs don't travel much. It seems to me that many AAs do believe to an extent that they're a kinda sorta different species and that allowances should be made for that. Geez! So ridiculous! Instead of embracing and cultivating self discipline, being accountable, and taking responsibility for themselves, they prefer to accept excuses for why they fail. Failure usually leads to more failure and thus we have what we have today with so many AA males whining about what they can't do. The fault for a lot of this can be laid at the doorstep of the poverty pimps.
This bogus research has enabled many AA boys to fail in school, drop out, and etc--simply because their parents did not believe they could sit still and learn.
Try convincing a Nigerian parent that their son can't sit still in the classroom and pay attention to the teacher, follow school rules and LEARN LOL! I won't hold my breath.
These bogus research findings are what make many AA parents angry at the school system and we hear them often say, "The racist school system won't make allowances for our black boys; it expects them to behave like girls and other boys," and yadda, yadda. If Nigerian boys can sit still and pay attention to the teacher, why can't AA boys do it? If they can't or don't, it has NOTHING to do with their African genes.
I don't want ANY allowances made for my black sons; they can sit still and learn just like any other normal person.
Also, let me point out that Asian-Americans tend to be pure Asians since they tend to have 2 parents who are both pure Asians, so the 'western diet' findings may hold true for them. African-Americans are the result of a lot of genetic mixture with whites,etc. so why wouldn't their weight be more similar to whites.
Gaining and losing weight is not a mystery. Here's the simple formula: If you consume more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. If you consume less calories than you burn, you will lose weight. But billions of dollars are made by making the gaining or losing of weight into a complex riddle. It's not.
Posted by: Evia | June 19, 2010 at 11:50 AM
"...but by insisting, ... , that black women must lose weight, you are maintaining that it will increase their chances of finding a mate..."
And she (Evia) is correct to say that. Real obesity is regarded as unhealthy, and recognized as a turn-off, by everyone not living in Bizarro World. What's your next topic? A defense of the Jim Crow laws?
Posted by: arthur | June 19, 2010 at 03:28 PM
I am a 36 year old Black woman. I am interested in an IR relationship, but haven’t got up the nerves to sign up to a dating service. I just wish to meet someone in person. I love seeing IR couples and exemplify hope for me. Hope that people regardless of race or ethnicity and stereotyping love is possible. I live in the Chicago land area and I’m a divorcee of 7 years. I’ve been reading many of the posting and many are about Black women needing to lose weight. Well, I happen to know that there are plenty of Black women that are very weight and health conscious. My sister is the creator of American Americans’ Fit, Fine and over Forty (FB). I workout 5 days a week and currently training for the Chicago ½ marathon for the 4th year in a roll. I say regardless of race we all want to look good and have a healthily life and relationship.
Posted by: April | June 28, 2010 at 07:55 PM