Monique and Josh
from the 'Black Girl with Long Hair' SITE.
Thanks for this pic, E!
LOL! But I really do have to spout my feelings about SOME bw who strive to have long hair--whether natural or not.
I believe that this striving of SOME bw to have long hair is nothing more than an attempt to mimic ww (and other straighter-haired) women to get bm's approval by saying or flashing the message to bm, "See, I NOW have long hair just like ww or aw or Indian women, so pls love me."
This is yet another aspect of SOME bw's indoctrination to be with a bm because many AA women, for sure, STILL don't believe that nonbm men really appreciate their looks and desirability as mates. SOME of us know better than that, but many other AA women don't, due to lack of social opportunities with wm, outside of work or school.
I digress here to say I received a note the other day saying that, once again. But this is primarily because wm and other non-bm do not tend to and probably won't (any time soon) aggressively show their interest in bw. Typical American wm are not socialized to show aggressive interest in any type of women, but bw are socialized to expect that type of aggressiveness from a man IF he is genuinely interested. Therefore, there are many missed opportunities, on both sides. In talking to ww about how they met their wm husbands, barely any of these ww have said that their white husbands showed aggressive interest in them. Darren didn't show aggressive interest in me. He 'tested the waters,' and he then stepped in gradually. LOL!
Back to hair. Let's face it. Very long hair is most closely associated with straight hair and who is it who has straight hair???? Yes, bw could also have very long hair, but the hair care practices of most AA girls and women don't allow that--in most cases. This is because AA women's traditional hair care practices almost always breaks off their densely coiled hair, each time they touch their hair, especially if it's hair of the densely coiled type--like mine.
So, if this quest to have LONG hair is because some bw genuinely believe that LONG hair is just wonderful, in itself, to have, that's one thing. Maybe, I'm just biased, however I'm always open to learning and growing. I've never seen the actual value of long hair, aside from it keeping your head warm if you live in a very cold climate. So I would appreciate it if someone could write to me and explain to me the intrinsic or practical value of long hair. And "long" in this regard, is relative. What's long to some, is not long to others.
So, until I've been broadened in my views, I believe that this attempt to have long hair is a goal for SOME bw to compete with other bw, ww, and other women for the attention of certain bm. Yes, SOME AA women have always liked longer, straighter hair, but these days, it's reached epidemic proportions.
And yes, we're back at bm again because we already KNOW that MOST wm who appreciate bw don't care whether we have long hair. So, let's not get that part twisted. I repeat: If long hair or straight hair or light or white skin were important to wm who appreciate bw, they would never look at those of us typical bw.They would instead look only at ww, Aw, etc. Wm who appreciate bw's looks and find us desirable only care whether our hair style looks good on us. So this is yet another layer or nuance in the mating and marriage arena for bw.
Many bw still don't GET IT that the overwhelming most of bm who seek ww want white or whiter-skinned women because they are WHITE-skinned, which means they are the sisters, mothers, aunts, daughters, cousins of white MEN--NOT because bw are horrible and not because ww are intrinsically superior women compared to bw.
What I'm about to say has been said before and elaborated on at length and eloquently by many brainy scholars and others (i.e. Frantz Fanon) and it may not apply to all bm, but the typical bm who craves or constantly seeks out a long-haired, straighter-haired, whiter, or ww mate (irrespective of her character, behavior, weight, looks, intelligence, class, etc.) is a deeply insecure bm. He is a bm who is merely satisfying his deep desire or yen to be a white MAN or feel what it's like to be a white MAN. It's a type of lust for white maleness. Fanon and various other authors have pointed this out and written extensively on it. This type of bm knows that being with a ww is as close as he's ever going to get to being a white man, and to be a white man is what this type of bm craves most.
And it's been said by other writers on this topic that some bm are actually jealous of bw like those of us on this SLICE who are married to wm or loved by wm.
And most wm don't GET THIS part either, but yes, these types of bm would love to be cherished and adored by YOU, a wm. LOL! Some of them would love to be the one sitting in the pic above, next to that white groom. And I have received a few notes from bm over the years, who wonder why I don't ever talk about the more tender and loving aspects of bm-wm relationships.
Wait! A reader just wrote me a note saying that the term HOMOSOCIALITY applies to this type of relationship. Thanks, Reader! LOL! I've never heard of this term before, but I knew I was detecting something unfamiliar (to me and most) in those notes from those bm notewriters.
I also knew from the way they expressed their desire that those bm may have been or may not have been homosexuals. Okay, so the desire for these relationships are homosocial, and not necessarily homosexual, but with an IR twist because these bm don't crave this homosocial relationship with a black man; they distinctly expressed an interest in WHITE men, and wanted me to discuss it.
Yeah, I know that sounds twisted, and you can doubt it if you want, and I know that many out there won't ever touch that, but I don't tiptoe around some of these issues because many unspoken aspects of some of these issues are killing bw in their souls.
I think this is very hard for some bw to understand or accept too because bw don't have cravings or feelings like those about ww, aside from friendships. It's also a very rare thing to encounter a bw who wants a wm simply because he's white or because she wants to be a ww. Not saying those bw don't exist, but they are extremely rare. I find that the typical bw who expresses interest in the possibility of romantically getting to know a wm is interested because of his observed or supposed Qualities and Traits.
I am convinced that this long-hair pursuit by SOME bw is a by-product of some of this and it's such an empty pursuit. I believe in moderation. A moderate amount of hair that is clean and styled to enhance or accentuate a woman's features ought to be the desired goal.
IMO, many bw don't style their hair to enhance or accentuate their features. Every bw should PAY a stylist, if necessary, to find a couple of low-maintenance, low-cost hair styles that will bring out her best features. I believe that that's all a bw needs. Once she gets that or has that, she should then seek to develop herself in a LOT of other ways. I'm also NOT saying that every bw should wear her natural hair every day, all day long. It's the fanaticism or love affair that many bw these days have with more and straight hair that I find disturbing. Moderation is the key--not never or always.
OF COURSE, every woman or just about every woman (if she's healthy, eats well and has a healthy lifestyle) CAN grow long hair if she takes care of it and allows nothing to intervene with its growth, but SO WHAT?
Hair length has very little to do with race. We are all humans. Bw are not a separate species. ALL hair grows, unless it's interrupted. I know a bw artist whose locs now touch the calves of her legs. She said her hair would be dragging on the ground like a wedding gown train if she hadn't cut it years ago. Of course, this means she hasn't combed through her hair in years. It's the willy-nilly combing through and yanking on densely-coiled hair that causes the breakage. If you yank on any densely coiled NATURAL thing (like hair or a vine), it IS going to snap or break. Only when it comes to bw's hair does this become a MYSTERY. LOL!
I've had hair of various lengths--from very short (afro) to beneath my shoulders. Throughout it all, it was ME under my hair and it was ME (or the way I THINK) that determined my success and contentment with love and life--NOT my hair. I assure anyone that I've been much more successful, more content, and live a much better life than many women of all groups who have a length of hair that would stretch across the room. It's a woman's interior (thinking) that overwhelmingly determines her exterior life--NOT hair. If a woman thinks she's not desirable to a group of men, then that's how she's going to behave around them. If she thinks she IS desirable, then she will behave as such.
I'm NOT saying it's not a worthwhile goal to pursue long hair--if it's important to you, but I am saying that it's a super high probability that long hair won't change your life to the extent that you think it will. Thus, your time and effort could have been invested more wisely by developing yourself in various other ways.
Bw--develop YOURSELF, your natural looks, your skills and natural gifts. Forget about other women and forget about men who only want you if you look like other women.
NOTES from Readers about Bw's Overweight--
Evia,
I just wanted to send you a note to tell you that I totally agree with you about the “okeydoke” concerning black women and being overweight. I think that this so-called self-esteem is probably a defense mechanism. I saw an interesting clip of Jennifer Hudson on the Ellen Show ( http://www.thisgoesin.com/2011/02/interview-jennifer-hudson-talks-weightloss-parenthood-performs-new-single-on-ellen/ ) and Ellen asked her about how she felt before and after the weight loss. Jennifer claims that she was ok with her size-16 weight and that she feels the same way about being a size 6. This is clearly a good example of her being a “strong black woman” and not admitting that being overweight affected her career and could hurt her health in the future.
This defense mechanism does not serve us black women well nor does it serve black girls well that view interviews like this with their impressionable minds.
Besides the “strong black woman” angle, there is also another agenda that I am sure that she has. Being that she has a strong following in the black community, she does not want to alienate any of the other “strong black women” who are already annoyed by her weight loss (much as been written in blogs that say she is “too skinny” according to many people in the bc).
So, it is up to independent-minded women like us to discern “real talk” from “okeydoke”. Personally, I have always had a struggle with my weight. As a result, I am always on a quest to improve my health and keep my weight down (especially after the holidays, lol!). I am fortunate to have a husband that supports me in this pursuit and we often work out together. Anyway, I just wanted to weigh in on the discussion (pun intended!).
Cheers,
Yes, B, obviously a lot of black girls and bw need to unhook themselves from the media machine and from the opinions of many in their social circle RIGHT NOW--because it's obvious that way too many of them have already accepted the page that someone has slipped into their self-definition notebook that authentic BLACK woman = hefty, fat, obese.
And any bw who goes up against that is going to be labeled as not "keepin' it real" and her black card will be yanked by some. So, the attempt is underway now to take Jennifer's bw card. And they MAY succeed IF she doesn't gain the weight back. There are so many fat bw and other fat women now (like fat ww fighting for fat acceptance) who are NOT going to like Jennifer because she has shown that being overweight is not a mystical, magical process; it happens because a person consumes many, many more calories than they burn. Weight doesn't just creep up on people, which is the way it sounds when I hear some women talk about it.
Any overweight person is DOING something to cause the weight to be on them! DUH!
Obviously some bw have conveniently accepted overweight as a part of her self-definition that a REAL bw just has to be hefty, far, obese, and she's not really a bw if she's not, but I NEVER will. Maybe this is because I'm PAB. LOL! I dunno.
And B, you'd better be careful; you're sounding like you have PAB tendencies. LOL! But, like I said, I don't allow the media to do my thinking. Nope, I rely on my good ole COMMON SENSE. I personally plan to lose a few pounds and I know it's within my power to do it.
Btw, I was talking on the phone with my 78 year old retired school teacher great-aunt in Alabama the other morning, and she told me that she's been walking to lose weight and has lost 10 pounds. She's never been really overweight--just plump. She said that as a result of walking, she has now lowered that 'rascal,' her cholesterol. LOL! And my aunt is about as ole school as they come. If any of y'all need a real dose of ole school, y'all need to talk to her. Whew! I'm so glad I'm ole school too.
And another note from NF -- this one opposing my stand. I appreciate this note because it reflects the thinking of a LOT of bw. We are individuals and many of us have had very different experiences. I would suggest to you and some others, NF, that if my views on bw and overweight disturb you, you should NOT read my site. You really don't have to read my site and if you do, you don't HAVE TO read anything I write about bw and overweight. But what I say needs to be SCREAMED at a lot of bw.
Evia,
I always love your articles and am excited when you post new entries. I understand your concern about Black women and weight however, let me share with you a different perspective. I am an overweight woman who grew up in a household in which my mother was very weight-conscious. I thought I was fat when I was in my teens (based on Euro standards) but now that I am older I realize that I was not. When I went off to college that is when I actually became overweight. I know this now. Back then, I obsessed about weight at an early age and unfortunately, I still do. I continue to struggle with my weight.
I’ll get back to that in a minute. When I see articles that fat Black women have better self-esteem, it makes me proud. Why? Because I have been weight conscious all of my life and it has taken a toll on my self-image. I did not socialize as much because I was the fat girl. When men flirted, I was suspicious. I limited my social interactions and professional dealings because of my weight.
Thank goodness I have become quite successful DESPITE my feelings about being the fat girl. My mother shaming me into dieting did not work. I yo-yo dieted all of my life trying so hard NOT to be the fat girl. Society making me feel like a 2nd class citizen did not keep the weight off. What it did was put me in the “othering” category that you sometimes speak of. That’s not a fun place to be.
When I see a black woman who is overweight who tries to look her best and thinks she is sexy, I applaud her. I am so happy that this country has not destroyed her self-image in ways it has done me and white women. Many white women struggle with trying to fit into this cookie-cutter image of big-breast while wearing a size 6. Bulimia, anorexia, and other eating disorders are synonymous with white women because of how this country has thoroughly convinced them that the feminine curves that are natural to women are undesirable. I’m thankful that many black women are able to carve out a feeling of worthiness and attractiveness in a size 18 body BECAUSE....you only live ONCE so why spend any moment of that time feeling unattractive or defective because you are fat.
I regret the days I listened to people who told me blatantly and subtly that I have to take a back seat to the skinny girls UNTIL I LOSE THE WEIGHT. The years passed me by and I’m still fat. Dr. OZ recently had a show asking, “is my butt too big?” He had a black woman model clothes to “DEEMPHASIZE” her butt. I was livid! He is trying to do the same thing to black women that they have done to white women. That is, make them feel dissatisfied with the beautiful God-given attributes that make them who they are. No one wants women to feel good about that bodies – black, white, or whatever. I’ve tried to lose weight for looks and HEALTH for years.
I met this white guy recently and he made the moves. This guy is a real catch! I told a black female acquaintance about him and she told me that he couldn’t be serious about getting to know me because I’m ----- fat. Oh, she didn’t say it exactly like that but it was damn close. The sad thing about this is that this country has done such a good job of making women like me feel romantically devalued that deep down inside I kinda sorta agreed with her. That's not a good feeling. Shortly after that I clicked on your website and there was this plump black girl from overseas and this handsome white fella who moved to be with her. I was thinking “okaaaaay....this is a good thing.” Hopefully, she thinks enough of herself to realize she is also worthy of love as a fat girl.
I’ll close with this: Give us fat girls a break. My mama couldn’t make me keep the weight off. Society couldn’t shame me into keeping the weight off. Trying to find the love of my life didn’t either. I’m older (not too old LOL!) , I’m single, I’m still fat. I have very few regrets thus far in my life except that I accepted the okey dokey that fat girls have to ride in the back of the love bus until....they lose the weight.
Yes, fat girls should lose weight for HEALTH reasons; I get that. Yes, fat girls can increase their love options in this country if they lose weight; I know that from personal experience. I’ve been the ‘fat girl with such a pretty face’ and the ‘fine girl with such a pretty face’. I’ve seen it all. Please continue to encourage black women to lose weight for health reasons.
However, thank God that some black fat girls --- while still fat --- still think they are ok just the way they are. That is a blessing. A woman’s self-worth should never be tied to the size of her hips. Keep up the good work! I love your website!
NF
NF, thanks, and you are entitled to YOUR views but what happened to you during your growing-up years has nothing to do with the core of this discussion. I am talking about an object that kills. FAT KILLS and causes immense suffering along the way, no matter what kind of self-worth a Fat Girl with supposed 'good self esteem' might have and no matter how happy she is with her fat. The core of this discussion has nothing to do with any woman's social life, her man, or anything else. FAT KILLS. Yes, it limits a bw's mating options and other social options, sometimes her job options, but the heart of of this discussion is that FAT KILLs. The article that I linked to the other day didn't even delve into bw's romantic lives.
And yes, many ww struggle with some of those eating disorders, but I see MANY skinny OLD ww. I don't normally see OLD and FAT bw or any OLD fat women because they're mostly DEAD. Many SKINNY and old ww get a chance to collect their social security and get the other benefits of living to an old age. FAT KILLS and usually at a much younger age.
Let the nurses and doctors tell you that many of those Size 18+ bw who are lying in the hospital, mainly due to their fat, are NOT happy. Their supposed "happy and fat" self esteem is not going to help them at that point. I know and have known some of those women. They're not talking that peppy talk then.
Many bw who work hard all of their lives will never get a chance to enjoy their older years because their fat will have killed them off, simply because other folks have convinced them that being hefty, fat, and obese is NORMAL for bw. This is the reason these bw feel "happier" about being overweight or obese. They have normalized it, with the help of many others. NORMALIZING DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR DOES NOT PROTECT ANYONE FROM NATURE.
Overeating is ALSO an eating disorder. Some bw like to crow about ww's anorexia, bullimia and various eating disorders and say, "Well, at least, I'm not anorexic or bullimic, like a ww," but being a FAT girl also shows the world that YOU, TOO have an eating disorder. LOL! And if you feel good about having your overeating disorder, then that's abnormal.
Being fat and feeling good about it is NOT a "blessing" as you mention. Also, pls don't put GOD in this. Curves do not equal FAT. A lot of women who are seeking fat acceptance are working hard to blur the lines between being fat and having curves. See, I'm an ole school bw. I grew up and used to see and know plenty of curvy bw and they were NOT fat. I have COMMON SENSE.
_____________________________
Just got this note about the HAIR site I mentioned above.
I was greatly turned off by this post because it seemed to poke at the premise of the BGLH site. You and the creator of BGLH have a similar aim, to open the eyes of their readers and buck the stereotypes and naysayer discouragement. To not reach out to BGLH and garner support for your cause and celebrate their's is your choice, but to bash a premise that you seem to relate to closely seems counterproductive in your aim.
The site is not about uber-long hair swinging hair to emulate a ww, but about loving yourself including your hair in it's natural state regardless of race. It's about helping bw understanding how to take care of their hair so they can break the mental shackles that have hampered your hair's growth - "My hair is too nappy to do anything but perm," "I can't grow my hair past my ears," "I need a weave to be beautiful," etc. You are right in saying long means something different to each person, and your assumption that long meant striving for ww hair shows you are no exception to stereotypical thinking.
This statement was especially sad. "Every bw should PAY a stylist, if necessary, to find a couple of low-maintenance, low-cost hair styles that will bring out her best features."
You seemed to not even look at the BGLH site.
K
MY Response:
K, you are correct. I didn't read any of the posts on that site because I don't have time for that. So, I'm certainly NOT poking at the BGLH site. I simply followed the link and got the pic. I was only interested in the IR couple.
At the same time, I read your statements several times about the purpose of the site. I do see the supreme value in bw learning proper hair care, so KUDOS to the site for doing that. However I personally STILL don't see the value in "growing hair past the ears." I still don't see WHY bw feel that hair past the ears is a desirable goal unless they're trying to have hair like ww or some other non-bw that they can flip, swing, or fling. And if that is the case, then I do object strongly to that. I don't see anything wrong with short(er), "nappy" or densely coiled, gravity-defying hair and feel that there are numerous beautiful hair styles for it IF bw were to take care of it and use their design skills to style it. Many bw have head shapes, cheekbones, and facial features to rock those styles. My own hair in twists, flips, swings and flings, but SO what??
I think way too much of a typical AA woman's time, energy, and other valuable resources are invested in hair. SMH So yeah, my thinking may be stereotypical, but there is also lots of truth in SOME stereotypes.
Not saying that you need to, but YOU have still not explained to me the practical or intrinsic VALUE of bw having long hair, ESPECIALLY when the huge investment in resources that go into acquiring it is considered. I'm a "thinking" person. Maybe if I could understand the actual intrinsic or practical value of bw having long hair, maybe I'd even help BGLH to promote the site.
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